The Devil's in the Details: Slavicsek reveals the Pit Fiend in all its glory

[UngeheuerLich]

I just noticed, that ridiculous amounts of natural armor for creatures seems to be gone. This means that touching high level mosters is not as easy as stealing a candy from a 5 year old. (ref is just 6 lower than AC, this could either be his breastplate (not mentioned in the equippment list, not seen on the picture) or his natural armor of a small value or a combination.

Actually, i would like to see some reasoning behind the values. Calculating everything back could be a pain, and it would help as guidelines to make own monsters. (maybe we got a somewhat reduced block to not show all mechanics and let us do some guesswork, and in the final writeup we get more)

 

[Wolfspider]

I'm curious. To those who think the Pit Fiend's exploding allies thing is stupid:

Did you also think the exploding Balor was stupid?

One detonates devils, one detonates upon death. Not a lot of difference.

Quite a bit of difference, actually--but I'm sure that you know that.

A creature exploding upon death, striking out at its enemies in a death fury, is common to fantasy literature and makes quite a bit of sense considering that the balor is a source of intense, demonic fire.

Causing one of your allies to do the electric slide across the battlefield and then go kablooey all of its enemies seems silly to me and a lot of other folks, but many also seem fine with it. Different strokes and all that.

In any case, your argument here is really a straw man. (Yes, another one.) Maybe people DO think that the balor exploding is stupid. Maybe not. But that's not the argument here. The 4e pit field in all of its snorey is.

Bringing up the v3.5 is just a smokescreen (which may makes sense considering all the exploding devils around here).

 

[Hjorimir]

I just noticed, that ridiculous amounts of natural armor for creatures seems to be gone. This means that touching high level mosters is not as easy as stealing a candy from a 5 year old. (ref is just 6 lower than AC, this could either be his breastplate (not mentioned in the equippment list, not seen on the picture) or his natural armor of a small value or a combination.

Actually, i would like to see some reasoning behind the values. Calculating everything back could be a pain, and it would help as guidelines to make own monsters. (maybe we got a somewhat reduced block to not show all mechanics and let us do some guesswork, and in the final writeup we get more)

Keep in mind that monsters are not built (i.e. calculated) like PCs are. Heck, we don't even know if there is a true algorithm or just a chart that "feels" right to the devs.

 

[Ycore Rixle]

Are we really at the point of examining each adjective used to determine whether it was really necessary?

This is an excellent bit of preview they've given us, and all we can do is complain about a few specific phrases?

Yes, we are at that point. The writing isn't just slightly bad. It's bad. Those mistakes would be corrected in a high school paper.

The bad writing is unfortunately part of a trend. Not a terrible, dismal, or unstoppable trend, but an irksome one. I want to call attention to it so that I can read about my favorite game (and I am defintiely buying and reading 4e) without being jarred out of immersion by high school mistakes.

Is writing the most important part of a game? No, I agree it's not. The game can still be a lot of fun with bad writing. But it would be even better with good writing.

 

[Wolfspider]

I agree. I haven't read Worlds and Monsters yet, but aren't the Devils immortal fearless beings to whom death is a mere temporary inconvenience? The Pit Fiend himself is a "Large immortal humanoid". What's the good of a lawful evil hierarchy if you can't treat creatures lower on the scale than you as literal cannon fodder. And for all we know, following the orders of a Pit Fiend to death might be something that devils actually clamor for.

Well, if this is the case, why can't devils simply blow themselves up at will, kind of like infernal suicide bombers? Why does it take them being ordered by a superior? If their so hot for exploding, why do they have to be coerced into doing it?

It just seems like a very strange set up to me.

 

[Rechan]

In any case, your argument here is really a straw man. (Yes, another one.) Maybe people DO think that the balor exploding is stupid. Maybe not. But that's not the argument here. The 4e pit field in all of its snorey is.

Bringing up the v3.5 is just a smokescreen (which may makes sense considering all the exploding devils around here).

Um, what?

2e balors exploded.

And, yes, that's what I'm asking: DO people think the exploding balor is stupid? Because I don't see much of a difference between the two; they both are pretty video-gamey to me, and I've never seen it presented in a movie or fiction where monsters blow up when killed. You do.

You need to not throw "Straw Man" around just to dismiss something you dislike.

 

[jeffh]

Slippery slope there, Zack. Role-playing means a lot of different things to people around here.

First of all, I don't think "slippery slope" means what you think it means. But that aside, one doesn't become immune to criticism for how they use a word or phrase just because they say "it means something different to me". Some of those definitions are more useful than others and a few are flat-out wrong. It's not an entirely subjective matter.

 

[Rallek]

I've been a bit skeptical of 4e since I heard the announcement, and WoTC saying "cool" about 30 times with every crumb of information released also increased my general pessimism... I've never seen anything that actually was cool that had to be sold that hard. (<--- using a bit of hyperbole there, so no flames needed)


That being said I'm not sure what I expected from 4e in terms of a powerful Devil... but I know I expected better than this. Even with lowered expectations, I found this disappointing.

 

[Benimoto]

I just noticed, that ridiculous amounts of natural armor for creatures seems to be gone. This means that touching high level mosters is not as easy as stealing a candy from a 5 year old. (ref is just 6 lower than AC, this could either be his breastplate (not mentioned in the equippment list, not seen on the picture) or his natural armor of a small value or a combination.

Actually, i would like to see some reasoning behind the values. Calculating everything back could be a pain, and it would help as guidelines to make own monsters. (maybe we got a somewhat reduced block to not show all mechanics and let us do some guesswork, and in the final writeup we get more)

I miss the reasoning behind values such as the AC as well. It occurs to me that there may not even be a breakdown. Instead, the designers looked at some chart or formula and decided that a 44 AC fit the creature by level and role.

To some extent, I'd like that to be the case. I mean, certainly a problem in the 3.5 system is when you take some sort of creature with a high AC for its CR and then slap +4 full plate barding on it. No technical CR increase, but it's got an AC way disproportionate to its challenge rating. It makes sense from an in-game perspective that some villian would want his pet creature to be as tough as possible, but it throws certain game aspects way out of whack. I wouldn't mind seeing that gone.

 

[Hjorimir]

First of all, I don't think "slippery slope" means what you think it means. But that aside, one doesn't become immune to criticism for how they use a word or phrase just because they say "it means something different to me". Some of those definitions are more useful than others and a few are flat-out wrong. It's not an entirely subjective matter.

I'm pretty darn sure I know what a slippery slope is. I was trying to be helpful because I've seen some rathare explosive arguments on what and what doesn't constitute role-playing (like is WoW really a role-playing game). We got a pretty good thread going here and I'm hoping it continues. 'dats all.