The Devil's in the Details: Slavicsek reveals the Pit Fiend in all its glory

[StarFyre]

...

After reading the new pit fiend profile..
*thinks*

Let the house ruling begin...



Sanjay

 

[helium3]

To those saying "No non-combat abilities", the article mentions pit fiends having a ritual to grant a Wish.

Yes, once every 99 years.

I hope the DMG or MM has rules/guidelines for how to modify monsters to make them more unique in a given encounter, or it's easy to figure out from the way the game works.

I'm not a big fan of the "each monster is exactly the same in every encounter" method of encounter design.

 

[Rechan]

So it's not that the wizard is stronger, exactly. It's that he's better at doing things that require strength plus skill. He's better able to punch things and have the blow land, but only because he has more experience. His punch still does the same measly damage.

So, to try and conceptualize this... The wizard is basically factoring in a BAB into an ability check.

Let's say a dex check to avoid falling on his ass while walking on some ice. 10th level Wizard has no higher dex than 1st level wizard, but 10th level Wizard, being more awesome and having dealt with pitching ship decks and walking narrow ledges, just Knows how to walk so he doesn't spill on his ass.

 

[Rechan]

I hope the DMG or MM has rules/guidelines for how to modify monsters to make them more unique in a given encounter, or it's easy to figure out from the way the game works.

I'm not a big fan of the "each monster is exactly the same in every encounter" method of encounter design.

How does 3e not do this? You are given a stat block for a monster. How is that monster not "the exact same for every encounter"?

You give them class levels. You give them unique abilities. You give them the McGuffin that does what you want.

The designers have said you can do all of the above in 4e.

Where's the issue?

 

[Lizard]

You are

Raw stat checks are exceeding rare, the strength check bend bars/lift gates check being the only common exception. So the current guess is that all stats are presented (for monsters & such, at least) as untrained skill modifiers, to reflect the benefits that advanced experience grant.

It does mean that raw strength checks have to be "back-figured", if such things are even used that frequently anymore.

It's just easier, or so Current Speculative Wisdom holds.

I'm still not grokking.

I thought skills were Attribute Bonus+1/2 level. But if attribute bonus goes up with level, doesn't this send untrained skill checks straight into extra-ludicrous land?

Joe the fighter, 10 Charisma. At tenth level, his bluff should +5 (1/2 level). But if his attribute bonus is ALSO 1/2 level, that makes it +10-- effectively for free. Same with every other skill. (So I guess this means that for a person with no stat bonuses, untrained skill=level)

(I mean, bad enough you auto-increase in every skill every time you go up 2 levels, but double-dipping by attribute bonus going up as well? Sigh...)

Anyway, onto the monster itself:
DAMN those damage numbers are low! If PCs have the same level of damage output, fight will last a looooong time.

One lousy AP? Sheesh.

Strength apparently doesn't add to damage -- it does 1d12+11 but has a Str bonus of +24.

Wonder what the "Noble Signet Ring" does? Bonus to social skills?

We have "Religion", not "Knowledge(Religion)".

Overall....sorry, it just ain't as scary as the 3e version, though that could be a lack of knowing the full implications of the mechanics. It's just so...sparse. It's like a stripped down stat block for the mini game, not something for a roleplaying encounter.

I remember when they posted the stat block for Tiamat during the run-up to 3e. Man...that made me drool with wonder, and think of what a terror it would be to confront her. This...meh. It's not BAD, but it's not remotely kick-ass scary. The stat block holds no sense of mystery or wonder, there's very little there that excites me and makes me want to know what it all means.

Shrug. I'd be more interested in the minions. At least new mechanics can't suffer by comparison to old ones.

(And the whole 'exploding devils' thing is such a crock...it reminds me of (bad) Hero System mechanics, where people would buy '10d6 AE Explosion, Special Effect -- I summon a devil and have him run up and explode'. It's a cheap way of making a basic attack have some flavor text, and gussying it up with 'Irresistible Command' as a name is cheesier than William Shatner film festival. Why not just have the damn thing toss some fireballs around, instead? I suppose it add a minor tactical choice -- do I let the devil attack or make it go boom? -- but it just seems, I dunno, too self-consciusly clever and self-indulgent to me. The exploding devils are actually scarier than the pit fiend itself, and that can't be good...)

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

Probably. The spined devil is a lvl 6 skirmirher and he gains +3 to his defenses, and +2 to his attacks.



They are effectively skill check modifiers in SWSE, but I think in 4E there is only one progression for everything, skills, BAB and defenses = 1/2 level. It's also lot easier to generate characters this way.
Then you just add some bonuses based on the character class or monster type, like those Defense bonuses each class get at 1st level in SWSE (Defense progresion in SWSE equals level, but in 4E it's almost certain 1/2 level.
The same might work for BAB. 1/2 level + ability modifier + class/type bonuses. The Pit Fiend clearly doesn't have a full BAB progression, since his melee attack is 31. 31 - 11(STR) = 20 - 13(LVL) = 7(monster bonus + weapon bonus)

Could the missing bonii be built monster bonii equivalent to the PCs magic equipment bonii?

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Seems kind of flat to me. For such a high level enemy it doesn't have many options. Damage is rather low too. But we are seeing a lot more mechanics here and I can definitely work out some patterns from it.

The fluff was uninspired. Then again these are the same people who put dimensions on the elemental vortex and thought mere thousands of miles was incomprehensible. Whatever else I'm sticking with the Dicefreaks version of Hell.

 

[Green Knight]

4. No ranged attack. Unless "slides" turns out to be a poor choice of words, he's got nothing that can deal damage to enemies with elevation on him.

He flies, so that's not really a problem. Those War Devils and Legion Devil Legionnaires probably fly, too.

 

[Glyfair]

I doubt it. Actually, what's special is that he has action points. I'm 99% sure that your standard monster does not. It does seem like he's using it for a second standard action, which is really useful. Only elites/solos will probably have action points, and I doubt PCs will have all that many either.

Exactly my thought. In earlier versions of action points they are for PCs. NPCs typically need to take a feat to get any.

 

[Kraydak]

Probably the same thing that was keeping the 3e Balor from wielding his whip and sword.

Nothing, but he just "comes with it".

Well, the 3e Balor had a better weapon (+1 Vorpal), and 3e didn't have the math. He is listed as wearing a breastplate in the fluff, but it isn't in his equipment, nor do we have an AC breakdown. What happens if you steal or dispel his (does it even exist if it isn't in his equipment list?) breastplate? What happens if you give him a magical one? As a lord of hell he should be able to afford halfway decent stuff... and yet he has almost no combat relevant loot. In 3e, that was ok. You let the monsters wear their relevant loot and the power variance fell within the CR system accuracy. The devs claim 4e does better... It certainly is supposed to have the math, which would be utterly shattered by the Pit Fiend using even weak stuff.

Its a problem I've been expecting. I was hoping there would be at least a *hint* of how the devs tried to handle it (no real confidence on my part, mind). Sigh.