The Diabolic Disciple

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Hero
A little riff on the draconic disciple, with some inspiration from the BoVD and the Hellfire Warlock.

Diabolic Disciple
The diabolic disciple knows that they are damned, but realizes that to serve willingly will bring greater rewards than to be enslaved, or worse, destroyed.

Role: Diabolic disciples are consummate deceivers, skilled in social interactions. On the battlefield, they can act much as a sorcerer, harrying a foe with spells. They are able to blend spells with trickery, using some of the rogue’s tricks. They are also the masters of hellfire, raining ruin and pain on their foes.
Alignment: As students of Hell’s masters, diabolic disciples must adopt their patrons’ outlook. Diabolic disciples must be lawful evil, lawful neutral, or neutral evil.
Hit Die: d8.

Requirements
Race: Any non-outsider
Skills: Knowledge (Planes) 5 ranks
Languages: Infernal
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the infernal bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the infernal bloodline.

Class Skills
The diabolic disciple’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are
Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly (Dex),Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Perception (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), and Stealth (Dex).
Skill Ranks at Each Level: 8 + Int modifier.


Code:
Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special					Spells per Day
1st	+0	+0	+0	+1	Infernal soul, subtle tongue		-
2nd	+1	+1	+1	+1	Bloodline feat, sneak attack +1d6
					Infernal blade				+1 level
3rd	+2	+1	+1	+2	Hellfire				+1 level
4th	+3	+1	+1	+2	sneak attack +2d6			-
5th	+3	+2	+2	+3	Hellfire (2/day), bloodline feat	+1 level
6th	+4	+2	+2	+3	Sneak attack +3d6			+1 level
7th	+5	+2	+2	+4	Summon (1/day)				+1 level
8th	+6	+3	+3	+4	bloodline feat, sneak attack +4d6	+1 level
9th	+6	+3	+3	+5	On dark wings				-
10th	+7	+3	+3	+5	Hellfire (3/day), summon (2/day)	+1 level

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the diabolic disciple prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Diabolic disciples gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells per day: At the indicated levels, a diabolic disciple gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a diabolic disciple, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Infernal soul: A diabolic disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline. If the diabolic disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the infernal bloodline, using his diabolic disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer gains spell slots of the spell’s level.
Subtle tongue (Ex): The diabolic disciple gains a bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy checks equal to his level in diabolic disciple.
Bloodline feat: At 2nd level, and again at 5th and 8th level, the diabolic disciple gains a bonus feat from the infernal bloodline bonus feat list.
Sneak attack (Ex): At 2nd level, the diabolic disciple gains sneak attack, as a rogue. The damage increased by 1d6 at 2nd, 4th, and 6th levels. Add the diabolic disciple level to the level of any other class that grants sneak attack to determine the diabolic disciple’s effective rogue level (for instance, to determine whether he can sneak attack someone with uncanny dodge).
Infernal blade (Su): At 2nd level, a diabolic disciple’s melee attacks are treated as lawful and evil.
Hellfire: At 3rd level, the diabolic disciple gains the hellfire bloodline power, even if his level does not yet grant that power. Once his level is high enough to grant this ability through the bloodline, the diabolic disciple gains an additional use of hellfire each day. He gains one additional use per day at 5th level and 10th level.
Summon (Sp): Starting at 7th level, a diabolic disciple can cast summon monster VII once per day as a spell-like ability. This ability can only be used to summon a devil or a creature with the fiendish template (which will be lawful evil in alignment). The effective caster level is the diabolic disciple’s arcane caster level.
At 10th level, the diabolic disciple can use the ability twice per day, and it counts as summon monster IX instead.
On dark wings: At 9th level, a diabolic disciple gains the on dark wings bloodline power, even if his level does not yet grant that power. Once his level is high enough to grant this ability through the bloodline, the diabolic disciple’s speed increases to 90 feet.
 

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I'll bite.

Over the course of the play the class loses three caster levels (i.e. access to 2 spell levels due to staggered sorcerer class progression). Not good. 3.5 standard for weakened spellcaster prestige classes was, IIRC, around -2 caster levels per 10 levels of prestige class.

--
Subtle tongue (Ex): The diabolic disciple gains a bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy checks equal to his level in diabolic disciple.
--

Two issues with this ability (and 1st level):
1. Lose a spellcasting level, and gain this in return. Ain't good enough.
1b. Access to crucial 4th level of spells delayed until 9th character level. Ouch.

2. This ability is both too weak (at the beginning it yields 5% higher success chance...) and too strong (at 10th level it will make most opposed checks trivial).

Recommendations
1. Do not lose a spellcasting level here.
2. Add 1 dice of sneak damage at 1st level.
3. Replace Subtle Tongue with free Skill Focus feat (choose either Diplomacy or Bluff).

--
Skill Ranks at Each Level: 8 + Int modifier.
--

Whoa... This is seriously too good.


To summarize: this class is very close to Arcane Trickster, albeit with a darker twist.

Regards,
Ruemere
 

I'll bite.

Excellent!

Over the course of the play the class loses three caster levels (i.e. access to 2 spell levels due to staggered sorcerer class progression). Not good. 3.5 standard for weakened spellcaster prestige classes was, IIRC, around -2 caster levels per 10 levels of prestige class.

Not that this refutes your objection, but the spell progression and many elements here were taken straight from the dragon disciple.


Subtle tongue (Ex): The diabolic disciple gains a bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy checks equal to his level in diabolic disciple.
--

Two issues with this ability (and 1st level):
1. Lose a spellcasting level, and gain this in return. Ain't good enough.
1b. Access to crucial 4th level of spells delayed until 9th character level. Ouch.

Again, if that is an issue, it's an issue with the dragon disciple as well. Which it may be. However, good design says the loss of casting level should be inflicted early, to discourage dipping.

In this class, access to spells is traded for higher BAB, more skill points, sneak attack, and hellfire. It's a change from straight up sorcerer to skill monkey blaster.

2. This ability is both too weak (at the beginning it yields 5% higher success chance...) and too strong (at 10th level it will make most opposed checks trivial).

It is kind of weak at 1st level. However, I'm not sure if it's later too strong; Skill Focus yields up to +6, and Glibness yields a +20 bonus on certain kinds of checks. It does increase his feinting ability, but he could probably use some help in that department anyway. How do you figure this compares to a level and a half of spells at 10th level?

Compared to the dragon disciple, we're trading +1 natural armor increase for +2 skill bonus, basically one feat equivalent for another, but stacking. Now, the equivalency has been hidden by the way I wrote the chart and smoothed out to +1 per level. Now, I am noticing that other class bonuses to skills, which tend to be situational and add half the class level. Scaling down this ability makes sense, but in that case, the ability is not as strong as what it replaced. Also, situationally some base classes grant bonuses that go to +10 by 20th level.

One option might be to make the bonus +2 at first level, stagger the advancement, and maybe cap it at +8. It's not as elegant, but it does give that satisfying boost at 1st level.

Second option would be to rejigger the chart, maybe moving sneak attack down and subtle tongue tonge up, with or without the first option as well.

Based on your feedback and having had more time to think about it, I think I might make the bonus apply only to certain kinds of checks, removing it from the combat arena.

If I cut the bonus to one-half level (minimum 1), or used a slower progression, do you have any suggestions what I might use to fortify the class in its absence?

Recommendations
1. Do not lose a spellcasting level here.
2. Add 1 dice of sneak damage at 1st level.
3. Replace Subtle Tongue with free Skill Focus feat (choose either Diplomacy or Bluff).

I don't think #1 is workable. #2 and #3 are reasonable suggestions.

Adding sneak attack at first level raises some issues. Conceptually, the character is more of a deceiver than a skirmisher, so it's kind of peculiar to put sneak attack first. From a balance standpoint, it turns the class into a sneak attack dip. Any class that adds an every other level ability, like sneak attack, at 1st level, risks adding to the sneak attack buffet.

#3 is fairly workable. However, it weakens the class concept, since any character could take that feat.

Whoa... This is seriously too good.

By comparision, the dragon disciple has d12s for hit dice (two steps better) and two good saves, whereas this class only has one. Further, it has to be taken into account that a favored class bonus is likely being given up. Conceptually, I can see that the class is more like a Bard than a Rogue, which would suggest 6 skill points a level, but that would place the class at a numerical disadvantage (Bard also has medimum BAB, two good saves). I think taking it down from 8 skill points would undoubtedly make it a weak class from a template standpoint, but there may be ways to fortify it.
 

Re: Diabolic Disciple

I think that the class overall gives up too much from the sorcerer's spellcasting in exchange for some rogue abilities. Although the theme is not bad, overall it should get some more powerful abilities.

Also a prestige for a specific draconic bloodline should not be based on another. The dragon disciple gets huge physical bonuses in exchange for the 3 caster levels he misses.

You might want to check the "Fiend-Blooded" prestige class in 3.5 Heroes of Horror for a nice conversion candidate.
 

I think that the class overall gives up too much from the sorcerer's spellcasting in exchange for some rogue abilities. Although the theme is not bad, overall it should get some more powerful abilities.

Also a prestige for a specific draconic bloodline should not be based on another. The dragon disciple gets huge physical bonuses in exchange for the 3 caster levels he misses.

You might want to check the "Fiend-Blooded" prestige class in 3.5 Heroes of Horror for a nice conversion candidate.

What would you think of changing it to 9/10 spell progression?
 

I decided the class needs beefier abilities and a bit more panache at 1st level. Assume skills drop to 6 + Int, subtle tongue is now staggered, and the following changes:

Code:
Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special					Spells per Day
1st	+0	+0	+0	+1	Infernal soul, subtle tongue +2,	-
					hungry flames
2nd	+1	+1	+1	+1	Bloodline feat, sneak attack +1d6
					Infernal blade				+1 level
3rd	+2	+1	+1	+2	Hellfire, suble tongue +3, 		+1 level
					improved feint
4th	+3	+1	+1	+2	sneak attack +2d6			-
5th	+3	+2	+2	+3	Hellfire (2/day), bloodline feat,	
					subtle tongue +4			+1 level	
6th	+4	+2	+2	+3	Sneak attack +3d6, unholy blade		+1 level
7th	+5	+2	+2	+4	Summon (1/day), subtle tongue +5	+1 level
8th	+6	+3	+3	+4	bloodline feat, sneak attack +4d6	+1 level
9th	+6	+3	+3	+5	On dark wings, unholy aura, 
					subtle tongue +6			-
10th	+7	+3	+3	+5	Hellfire (3/day), summon (2/day)	+1 level

Hungry flames (Su): At will, the diabolic disciple can create a fire in the palm of his hand, shedding the equivalent of torch light. This fire does not harm the disciple, but can be used to ignite objects as though it were a torch. Additionally, the diabolic disciple can make a melee touch attack to do 1d6 points of fire damage, +1 per level of diabolic disciple. He may also hurl the fire to a range of 120 feet, striking as a ranged touch attack.
Improved Feint: At 3rd level, the diabolic disciple receives Improved Feint as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites.
Unholy blade (Su):At 6th level, any weapons the diabolic disciple wields gain the unholy property.
Uholy aura (Sp): Once per day, a diabolic disciple of at least 9th level, can use unholy aura as a spell-like ability, oncer per day, using his or arcane spellcaster level as the effective caster level.

What do you think?
 

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