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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The dominated condition and sneak attack
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<blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 5465959" data-attributes="member: 71571"><p>If the power is 'Target creature' than their status as allies or enemies is rendered moot. Target creature powers can target your allies, and on top of that, they can't say no to the power. If the power targets allies explicitly, they can simply go 'No' and ignore it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There are tons of differences, like one is an attack, and a power, and has the weapon keyword, and is an at-will power, and uses a standard action, and the other is not an attack, not a power, and not an action, and not in any way shape or form even similar.</p><p></p><p>So... I don't know where you're going with that because your understanding of what the rules seem to say and mine are on different levels. So... allow me to explain.</p><p></p><p>The dominator gets to choose one action for you each turn. That action can be a standard, move, minor, or free action, but they only get to choose one. Otherwise, you cannot take ANY actions.</p><p></p><p>Let's say the dominator chooses for you to use the Melee Basic Attack power. You do so, and you hit. Once you've rolled damage, your Sneak Attack class feature kicks in, allowing you to add damage on to that roll. This is <strong>part of the same action</strong> and as such, the dominator can make the choice for you, as the dominator controls your entire action.</p><p></p><p>This does not necessarily apply to every striker, however. A dominator cannot use a Monk's Flurry of Blows because that is a free action, and not only has the dominator used the one action they are allowed that turn, the dominated condition ALSO forbids the use of actions outside that one. Had that restriction not been there, YOU could use Flurry of Blows if the attack he made you use while dominated hit... and used it to damage the dominator, if he were a legal target for it. </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>No, it is however a rules term. Keywords refer to the bold text after 'At-Will' in a power. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, the only powers a dominated creature could be forced into using are powers that are at-will. </p><p></p><p>However, it is probably a bad idea tactically for the dominator to force you to use powers that 'target enemy' or 'enemies' because those powers could only legally target your party's enemies. </p><p></p><p>This is not a rule set in stone, however. Let's say you come upon a battle between kobolds and goblins, and your mission is to remove both of them from the dungeon you're in. It is therefore conceivable that you'd get into a fight against both simultaneously. The goblins and the kobolds are both your enemies, but the goblins' enemies are the kobolds and your party. So one of the goblins could dominate you, then use your 'target enemy' powers to attack the kobolds just fine; they ARE your enemies after all.</p><p></p><p>'Target ally' powers are a bad idea as well, as you can't use them to help your dominator's allies, and if they have a negative effect on your own party, they can choose to ignore those negative effects.</p><p></p><p>So, yes, most of the time, dominators are just going to use 'target creature' powers. Of course, this is hardly a problem, as the vast majority of at-will attack powers, including melee basic attacks, are 'Target creature.'</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The PCs are not the dominated creature's enemies, so no, it would not effect them. The dominated status is <strong>not complete control.</strong> It is control over a single action. If the afflicted creature were, say... the unwilling thrall using a more powerful magic, then ya, you could make the argument that the control is total and overwhelming enough to change enemies to allies.</p><p></p><p>Something that doesn't offer total control and doesn't last longer than five minutes surely does not qualify as 'alignment changing.' The dominated character has full choice over anything that does not fall within that one action per turn, therefore control is not total, therefore it can be reasoned that he has enough control NOT to blast his allies with magic that discriminates between allies and enemies. Magic that does not discriminate does not have that luxury.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The rules are pretty much cut and dry on this, and answer the problem specificly. If you are dominated, allies are still allies, and enemies are still enemies. Those are defined game terms in the rules. </p><p></p><p>You don't have to like it, and can rule otherwise in your games. As far as the rules themselves are concerned however... it's a done deal.</p><p></p><p>-----------------------------------------</p><p></p><p>Of course, the enemy can't force you to use a power it isn't aware of the existance of. Nor can you do that to a monster. Fortunately, monster knowledge checks allow awareness of the powers of the enemy, as does observing them use an at-will power. If a dominating monster doesn't have a good Nature/Arcana/Appropriate skill here, chances are it won't even know what powers to use, so it's Melee Basic Attacks all the way.</p><p></p><p>You are not obligated to -tell- the monster what your attacks are, unless it uses a free action to force you to do so. And that would be your one action that turn. And that means you won't do anything else.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DracoSuave, post: 5465959, member: 71571"] If the power is 'Target creature' than their status as allies or enemies is rendered moot. Target creature powers can target your allies, and on top of that, they can't say no to the power. If the power targets allies explicitly, they can simply go 'No' and ignore it. There are tons of differences, like one is an attack, and a power, and has the weapon keyword, and is an at-will power, and uses a standard action, and the other is not an attack, not a power, and not an action, and not in any way shape or form even similar. So... I don't know where you're going with that because your understanding of what the rules seem to say and mine are on different levels. So... allow me to explain. The dominator gets to choose one action for you each turn. That action can be a standard, move, minor, or free action, but they only get to choose one. Otherwise, you cannot take ANY actions. Let's say the dominator chooses for you to use the Melee Basic Attack power. You do so, and you hit. Once you've rolled damage, your Sneak Attack class feature kicks in, allowing you to add damage on to that roll. This is [b]part of the same action[/b] and as such, the dominator can make the choice for you, as the dominator controls your entire action. This does not necessarily apply to every striker, however. A dominator cannot use a Monk's Flurry of Blows because that is a free action, and not only has the dominator used the one action they are allowed that turn, the dominated condition ALSO forbids the use of actions outside that one. Had that restriction not been there, YOU could use Flurry of Blows if the attack he made you use while dominated hit... and used it to damage the dominator, if he were a legal target for it. No, it is however a rules term. Keywords refer to the bold text after 'At-Will' in a power. No, the only powers a dominated creature could be forced into using are powers that are at-will. However, it is probably a bad idea tactically for the dominator to force you to use powers that 'target enemy' or 'enemies' because those powers could only legally target your party's enemies. This is not a rule set in stone, however. Let's say you come upon a battle between kobolds and goblins, and your mission is to remove both of them from the dungeon you're in. It is therefore conceivable that you'd get into a fight against both simultaneously. The goblins and the kobolds are both your enemies, but the goblins' enemies are the kobolds and your party. So one of the goblins could dominate you, then use your 'target enemy' powers to attack the kobolds just fine; they ARE your enemies after all. 'Target ally' powers are a bad idea as well, as you can't use them to help your dominator's allies, and if they have a negative effect on your own party, they can choose to ignore those negative effects. So, yes, most of the time, dominators are just going to use 'target creature' powers. Of course, this is hardly a problem, as the vast majority of at-will attack powers, including melee basic attacks, are 'Target creature.' The PCs are not the dominated creature's enemies, so no, it would not effect them. The dominated status is [b]not complete control.[/b] It is control over a single action. If the afflicted creature were, say... the unwilling thrall using a more powerful magic, then ya, you could make the argument that the control is total and overwhelming enough to change enemies to allies. Something that doesn't offer total control and doesn't last longer than five minutes surely does not qualify as 'alignment changing.' The dominated character has full choice over anything that does not fall within that one action per turn, therefore control is not total, therefore it can be reasoned that he has enough control NOT to blast his allies with magic that discriminates between allies and enemies. Magic that does not discriminate does not have that luxury. The rules are pretty much cut and dry on this, and answer the problem specificly. If you are dominated, allies are still allies, and enemies are still enemies. Those are defined game terms in the rules. You don't have to like it, and can rule otherwise in your games. As far as the rules themselves are concerned however... it's a done deal. ----------------------------------------- Of course, the enemy can't force you to use a power it isn't aware of the existance of. Nor can you do that to a monster. Fortunately, monster knowledge checks allow awareness of the powers of the enemy, as does observing them use an at-will power. If a dominating monster doesn't have a good Nature/Arcana/Appropriate skill here, chances are it won't even know what powers to use, so it's Melee Basic Attacks all the way. You are not obligated to -tell- the monster what your attacks are, unless it uses a free action to force you to do so. And that would be your one action that turn. And that means you won't do anything else. [/QUOTE]
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