The Drop Down Menu System

[tburdett]

I think they are necessary to improve site navigation. If I didn't, I wouldn't have spent 6 months working on this. I hope that counts for more than your attitude problem with improving technology.

And we care about your opinion because? I have spent time on projects that turned out to be a complete waste of time, maybe this one is too?

I hate to break it to you, but the Commodore PET wasn't a very good computer.

Maybe, maybe not. It set the stage for the Commodore 64, however, which was an AMAZING computer for its' time. I still have mine (along with a C-128D, a C-128, a 1581, a 1541, and a working printer) and my kids still have fun playing games on it when I decide to fire it up.

 

[DanMcS]

And we care about your opinion because? I have spent time on projects that turned out to be a complete waste of time, maybe this one is too?

Hey. Be nice.

 

[DanMcS]

Anyway, I welcome feedback on this from all who will be affected.

By the way, the links to the forums in the menu go to enworld.cyberstreet.com, not the enworld.org/forums/ address.

 

[Michael Morris]

By the way, the links to the forums in the menu go to enworld.cyberstreet.com, not the enworld.org/forums/ address.

That's odd - I thought I had corrected that. Must have used the old PNG when I switched the colors out by mistake.

Anyway, We're not talking about retooling the whole site and erasing everything here. We're talking about 2 lines of code. They can be taken out as quickly as they can be put in, which is to say within 15 minutes.

 

[BSF]

OK, I missed the discussions the first time around. Where would the drop-downs be displayed? I like the thought of site continuity. Though, there will be some redundancy since many of the links are to forums.

 

[Dirt]

Whew...well, this is what you get when you ask opinions of other programmers, I suppose!

Personally, I don't mind the drop-downs. On both sides, I think the tone of conversation could improve somewhat though.

Micheal_Morris, I know that you've put in a lot of time on this, so I can understand being defensive.

Some of my concerns would be some of the same voiced by DanMcS.

#1 - I'd agree on this one. Javascript can be a fickle friend. But, it seems that you've taken browser compatibility into account, so you should be fine.

#2 - Again, I'd agree to an extent. It used to be the case that crawlers had trouble indexing your site without hyperlinks (which was the reason why you used to see menu items at the top as well as regular hyperlinks at the bottom of a page). But, I don't believe this to be the case anymore. I'm not sure about DanMcS's argument regarding a handicapped person though...that might be correct.

#3 - This is the last one I'll comment on. I agree with the need for simplicity, but I think that drop-downs are an acceptable part of a user interface. I don't use them often, but I do use them to organize an abundance of additional links...

 

[Umbran]

Anyway, We're not talking about retooling the whole site and erasing everything here. We're talking about 2 lines of code. They can be taken out as quickly as they can be put in, which is to say within 15 minutes.

Okay, it doesn't sound to me like you're describing exactly what the results will be very well. You give a link over to the Dusk site as an example, but when you need to convince people, you ought to give a verbal description as well. For example, you keep referring to 77 links. But in this thread you haven't said which 77 links those were...

I'm not a web-coder. But you yourself described this as "a hack". Where I come from, hacks are not the world's most reliable code, and you instantly made us wonder about it's integrity. I know I'm not comfortable with resting the functionality of a heavily used site on something described as "a hack".

You say it isn't a retooling. And as a manner of code it might not be. But as a manner of site layout, it is, isn't it? You're talking about taking a list of links currently running down the side of a page, and completely replaceing them with dropdown menus? From a user's standpoint, that is significant retooling.

You're going to have to expect some resistance to that. If you ask opinions, some of them won't agree with you. The fact that you've done months of work to implement it may be important to you, but since the readers here didn't live through it, it isn't to them. So you're going to have to take the criticism, even if it isn't the most polite.

 

[Michael Morris]

As usual, "the sky is falling" types are the first to respond and state a list of myths in a panic that shows gross ignorance of how the software that drives these boards works. Part of this is my fault - I assume to much - so once and for all lets dispel the myths:

1. He's gonna remove all the body links and put them in the drop down menu!! NO!!!!!!!
   
   Incorrect. In fact, without totally rewritting both Post Nuke & V Bulletin this is impossible. The drop down menu is, at best, a supplement to the existing system. The menu that will be used is the one on the top of the Dusk site - that very one - same code.
   
2. He's gonna hack and crash the system, NO!
   
   That accusation I find extremely insulting. I'm going to great pains to make sure this transfer doesn't disrupt anything. Much of this involves setting up and running a private mirror of the ENWorld site on my laptop. I have gotten the news section working and I'm ready to test it. VBulletin promises to be more difficult as attested by the fact that WotC hasn't managed to integrate their menu system into it (incedently, my system uses the same JAVA as theirs - both are created by Macromedia Fireworks)
   
   The mod on the news site involves the inclusion of two lines of code. The worst thing they could do is interfere with the JAVAscript that's already a part of the boards. The database of messages isn't at risk, and if a problem arises the offending lines can be removed.
   

 

[MerakSpielman]

Not that I (or any of us) really have any say in the matter, but would you agree to post a poll a week or so after the changes are implemented to gague the public opinion? And further agree to remove the changes if a sizable majority of the users seem to dislike them?

 

[DanMcS]

As usual, "the sky is falling" types are the first to respond and state a list of myths in a panic that shows gross ignorance of how the software that drives these boards works.

Listen, you asked us for comments and suggestions, then you got all offended when we provided them, and now you're attacking the only people that have bothered to respond to you at all.

Incorrect. In fact, without totally rewritting both Post Nuke & V Bulletin this is impossible. The drop down menu is, at best, a supplement to the existing system. The menu that will be used is the one on the top of the Dusk site - that very one - same code.

Forgive me for believing you the first time, then, when I asked if we could still have the regular links on the page, at least as an option, and you said "WILL NOT HAPPEN. Russ has already stated that. If they are implemented, they will be implemented in full."

That accusation I find extremely insulting. I'm going to great pains to make sure this transfer doesn't disrupt anything. Much of this involves setting up and running a private mirror of the ENWorld site on my laptop. I have gotten the news section working and I'm ready to test it. VBulletin promises to be more difficult as attested by the fact that WotC hasn't managed to integrate their menu system into it (incedently, my system uses the same JAVA as theirs - both are created by Macromedia Fireworks)

Yeah, you know, the only messages about you "crashing the system" are people responding humorously to the implication that the forums might be down for a whole three minutes. We've dealt with much longer downtimes in the past. You're taking this far too personally and seriously.

And why do you keep all-capsing JAVA? It's not an acronym, and it's probably mostly PHP code anyway, not javascript (which is not the same as java, even though you keep using them interchangably).

Oh yeah, and I'll accept your apology for calling me a liar earlier, too.