The Elements of Magic
- Thread starter Dragongirl
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Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
It does sound a lot like MERP/Rolemaster, which scores it high marks in my book, anyway.
[hijack][pimp]I wish I had access to this while I was working on the Spell Design system for Heroes of High Favor: ELVES. (I suppose I should have asked...)
I am eager to compare the two, though they are clearly very different beasts. I have not designed a new system so much as deconstructed the core spells to find the method behind the madness. It was, for most of the design process, a complete nightmare, but like cracking a good math problem it eventually started to make sense. As a result the spell templates in Elves don't deviate from the core spells, which may or may not be a good thing... YMMV.[/pimp][/hijack]
I'd like to compare notes with CZ sometime and see if we went through the same difficulties.
I will definitely be picking up Elements of Magic. I am torn between running a game with a free-wheeling magic system like this, or one on the other end of the spectrum that makes spellcasting a rare and burdensome thing (like CoC).
Wulf
[hijack][pimp]I wish I had access to this while I was working on the Spell Design system for Heroes of High Favor: ELVES. (I suppose I should have asked...)
I am eager to compare the two, though they are clearly very different beasts. I have not designed a new system so much as deconstructed the core spells to find the method behind the madness. It was, for most of the design process, a complete nightmare, but like cracking a good math problem it eventually started to make sense. As a result the spell templates in Elves don't deviate from the core spells, which may or may not be a good thing... YMMV.[/pimp][/hijack]
I'd like to compare notes with CZ sometime and see if we went through the same difficulties.
I will definitely be picking up Elements of Magic. I am torn between running a game with a free-wheeling magic system like this, or one on the other end of the spectrum that makes spellcasting a rare and burdensome thing (like CoC).
Wulf
RangerWickett
Legend
Wulf Ratbane said:
Run ours. It's fun, though I wish I'd gotten my grubby fingers into it a little earlier; I would've made a few different design decisions so it would better fit my conception of magic. But it's still quite good.
I wouldn't be a DM if I didn't feel compelled to make a few changes.
I'll have to get EoM too . . . I'm a sucker for new magic systems. Mostly because I hate the standard DnD magic system with every fiber of my being (Psi's okay, but still a little on the sketchy side). I have no less than TWELVE alt.psi and alt.magic systems floating around my hard drive, and I've been playing DnD for less than 3 years. 
Terath Ninir
Yog Sothoth loves you
Geoffrey: It's a replacement for the PHB spells. TEoM is meant to be a stand-alone, non-memorization spell system. I hate fire-and-forget spells, but they're such an integral part of D&D that you have to do an almost total re-write to change the spells. That's basically what I've done. It's set up so you can pull out the standard spell system and plug this book in.
Wulf: You can email me at Cyberzombie@myrealbox.com . Their servers crash about once a week, so if an email doesn't get through, just try again. Your struggles sound similar to mine. I have gone over just about every Core spell to determine rules and power levels. Very complicated stuff, since there really wasn't an underlying logic there to start with -- they just assigned levels by feel.
Ranger Wickett: I just think you and I have slightly different styles. But like you said, no DM is ever fully satisfied with the rules.
Further questions are welcome. And I can expand on answers as needed.
Wulf: You can email me at Cyberzombie@myrealbox.com . Their servers crash about once a week, so if an email doesn't get through, just try again. Your struggles sound similar to mine. I have gone over just about every Core spell to determine rules and power levels. Very complicated stuff, since there really wasn't an underlying logic there to start with -- they just assigned levels by feel.
Ranger Wickett: I just think you and I have slightly different styles. But like you said, no DM is ever fully satisfied with the rules.
Further questions are welcome. And I can expand on answers as needed.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Oh, and remember, if you like your Final Fantasy classes....
Stuff, Etc will meet all your needs (some now, more soon).
This does look intriguing...more of a way to focus spellcasters...
would this work alongside normal cleric and/or arcane spellcasting classes? Or would you have to replace your entire magic system with this in order to use any part of it?
Stuff, Etc will meet all your needs (some now, more soon).
This does look intriguing...more of a way to focus spellcasters...
would this work alongside normal cleric and/or arcane spellcasting classes? Or would you have to replace your entire magic system with this in order to use any part of it?
RangerWickett
Legend
CZ, do you have an AIM or ICQ account? I'm rangerwickett on AIM, and 45943113 on ICQ. We should talk a bit. 
As for using this with the existing magic system. . . . Well, you can basically replicate all of the current core spellcasting classes with the rules in the book, but the spellcasting in Elements is more flexible (unless the GM wants to use campaign-specific restrictions), so the core class distinction between arcane and divine spells won't mean as much. You can use them together, yes definitely, and Elements is certainly a supplement for gamers who are already somewhat experienced with the d20 magic system, so with new players, you might want to have them just use the simpler classes from the PHB.
Elements presents revised verisons of the ranger and bard, but not the paladin, though I don't really see why not. It would've been fairly easy to do. It's funny you should call them half-casters, since the caster level chart actually includes increments of 1/2, so if you're a multiclassed Ranger 5/Black Mage 4, you'd have a total caster level of 4 1/2.
More info once I get a chance to talk to CZ and okay a few things with him.
As for using this with the existing magic system. . . . Well, you can basically replicate all of the current core spellcasting classes with the rules in the book, but the spellcasting in Elements is more flexible (unless the GM wants to use campaign-specific restrictions), so the core class distinction between arcane and divine spells won't mean as much. You can use them together, yes definitely, and Elements is certainly a supplement for gamers who are already somewhat experienced with the d20 magic system, so with new players, you might want to have them just use the simpler classes from the PHB.
Elements presents revised verisons of the ranger and bard, but not the paladin, though I don't really see why not. It would've been fairly easy to do. It's funny you should call them half-casters, since the caster level chart actually includes increments of 1/2, so if you're a multiclassed Ranger 5/Black Mage 4, you'd have a total caster level of 4 1/2.
More info once I get a chance to talk to CZ and okay a few things with him.
Terath Ninir
Yog Sothoth loves you
Asathas: Funny you should use that term. The "half-spell casters" can gain half a spellcasting level. Roughly what that means is that a ranger goes up in spellcasting abilities half as quickly as another caster, which is roughly what they do in the Core rules. The book describes it in proper detail.
Kamakaze Midget: While these rules are designed to replace standard spellcasters, you only have to change one rule to use them alongside the standard casters. The mages in tEoM can use metamagic feats as they cast a spell as a standard action. If they're used with, say, wizards and clerics, they need to use metamagic feats the way sorcerers and bards do -- the spell casting time is increased. Other than that, they should fit in with traditional casters at least as well as psions do.
RangerWickett: I do not have AIM or ICQ, nor am I ever likely to use them unless forced to at gunpoint. You can email me at Cyberzombie@myrealbox.com and if we need to "chat", we could try to arrange something through the Nutkinland chatroom.
As for why I didn't include the paladin -- I don't really see them working with arcane magic. Their spells and their powers are all divine in origin, and cannot really be seperated from the divine.
The "half-spell casters" can gain half a spellcasting level. Roughly what that means is that a ranger goes up in spellcasting abilities half as quickly as another caster, which is roughly what they do in the Core rules. The book describes it in proper detail.Kamakaze Midget: While these rules are designed to replace standard spellcasters, you only have to change one rule to use them alongside the standard casters. The mages in tEoM can use metamagic feats as they cast a spell as a standard action. If they're used with, say, wizards and clerics, they need to use metamagic feats the way sorcerers and bards do -- the spell casting time is increased. Other than that, they should fit in with traditional casters at least as well as psions do.
RangerWickett: I do not have AIM or ICQ, nor am I ever likely to use them unless forced to at gunpoint.
You can email me at Cyberzombie@myrealbox.com and if we need to "chat", we could try to arrange something through the Nutkinland chatroom.As for why I didn't include the paladin -- I don't really see them working with arcane magic. Their spells and their powers are all divine in origin, and cannot really be seperated from the divine.
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