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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Hitcher" data-source="post: 6344051" data-attributes="member: 63747">Okay this is my first chance to come back to the thread since I posted t. Have you kids been good while I've been gone? D'awww, Capricia made a mess on the rug. Can't I ever leave you guys alone?So, some responses:Fair points. You can certainly make efforts to run D&D as a super-serious game. But I'm not at all convinced that the mechanics have ever supported that style of play. I'd say they work against it pretty hard, in fact. I would like to clarify my point (4), however. When I was talking about the "scientific" feeling of magic, I was really thinking about the way the player mechanics work, rather than about the possibility of strangeness and more magical magic in the setting. I think that this is a consequence of the fact that (a) whenever you try to lock down and systematise magic, it loses a lot of the strangeness that makes it magical, and (b) the magic system is D&D is particularly rigid and predictable, with all the spells in their own little boxes. But there is certainly still the possibility to keep mystery and magic alive in the NPCs and environment of the game (as long as the DM doesn't fall into the trap of making all the NPCs and environments follow the exact same rules as the PCs). A good example of this is the Trinkets table in Basic, which is not coincidentally one of my favourite sections of the rules.Ouch - it burns! Yep, not going to engage with that kind of juvenile sarcasm.I only started playing D&D in the 90s, but I totally agree. Even in it's flawed kitschness, it's great fun. And like you say, you can't fault it for not knowing what it was doing, when it was the first. It was really interesting to hear that perspective about the era it was birthed from - I have to admit that I haven't really considered the shape of the game in that context of the anything-goes 70s before.Thanks! Good to have people around who appreciate a bit of civility.Isn't Amber actually an RPG? I guess it's novels as well?Yeah, it can be that, and it's great when you can make it happen. But the mechanics really don't do a whole lot to encourage it. I'm glad that Wizards seem to be squarely focusing on story this time around, so we'll see how that goes. But if you want reliably strong narrative, you're better off going to Burning Wheel, FATE or Dungeon World.Agreed. And this is why I don't worry so much about the game's mechanical or thematic faults.Those are some of the stronger suits of 4E, and I'm pretty sure that 5E will also support all of them, in one way or another.Thanks for sharing your thoughts, everyone!</blockquote>

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