The Essentials articles are atrocious.

[GMforPowergamers]

Since we're talking about Vorthos, might as well throw in Malvin as well.

Although...do we even have Malvins in D&D?

ok, what are those?? can you catch me up...

 

[nightwyrm]

ok, what are those?? can you catch me up...

Very simply put, Vorthos appreciates good flavour, Malvins appreciates well thought out mechanics. It's kind of a feel/think dicotomy.

More detail here:
Melvin and Vorthos : Daily MTG : Magic: The Gathering

 

[Cadfan]

Magic's gamer terminology is decent, but its animal terminology is better.

 

[nightwyrm]

Magic's gamer terminology is decent, but its animal terminology is better.

So...you wanna fight baloths and hundroogs in D&D.

 

[Cadfan]

So...you wanna fight baloths and hundroogs in D&D.

No, the whole spider/rattlesnake/etc format for classification of card powers.

 

[nightwyrm]

No, the whole spider/rattlesnake/etc format for classification of card powers.

Oh those, I forgot about them. I think they're terms more often used in a multiplayer environment and I only play limited two player games so I don't really think about classifying cards in that manner.

 

[Dausuul]

No, the whole spider/rattlesnake/etc format for classification of card powers.

That sounds interesting, but I've never heard of it... don't suppose you've got a link?

 

[nightwyrm]

That sounds interesting, but I've never heard of it... don't suppose you've got a link?

Alongi’s Fabulous 500! : Daily MTG : Magic: The Gathering

Scroll to the bottom, it's got a nice description. I couldn't seem to find the original article.

 

[Cadfan]

That sounds interesting, but I've never heard of it... don't suppose you've got a link?

The article nightwyrm linked is pretty good.

I mostly like it because it really helps separate out how things that are very similar in concept can be very, very different in actual outcome.

Let me give you an example using D&D powers. Suppose we had two powers, which read

1. Immediate Interrupt. Trigger: An enemy hits or misses you. Attack the triggering creature for: Intelligence versus Reflex, 2d6+Int fire damage and 5 ongoing fire damage.

2. Effect. Until the end of your next turn you gain the following: Immediate Interrupt. Trigger: An enemy hits or misses you. Attack the triggering creature for: Intelligence versus Reflex, 2d6+Int fire damage and 5 ongoing fire damage.

These are really, really similar. But very different in play. The first is a Spider power. Your enemy doesn't expect it, they foolishly attack you, and you light them on fire. The second is a Rattlesnake power. Your enemy DOES expect it. Your enemy knows that attacking you will result in being lit on fire. So your enemy probably chooses to attack someone else.

The first power gets its strength from being used. The second gets its strength from NOT being used, but rather from threatening your enemies with its potential use and causing them to change their behavior as a result.

The first power is great if you don't mind getting hit in order to deal more damage. The second power is great if you don't want to get hit at all, and don't mind not getting to deal damage.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Against an enemy that are hard to hit depending on what portion your strength bonus is of your static modifiers.
When attacking with an OA after getting heavy blade opportunity.
When the enemy less health then you have static damage modifiers.

All situations in which Sure Strike outperforms a melee basic attack

One of which occurs at level 11, one of which should not actually occur in a game run according to the challenge guidelines, and the last which requires pin-point assessment of the number of hitpoints your foe has AND for you to not have cleave OR only have a single weak foe to dispatch.

In other words, because this is a set of guidelines for newbies, not for people who count their foes hitpoints or plan their character 11 levels ahead (and apparently don't know how to retrain), sure strike is a silly thing to recommend.

Sure strike e.g. can be a blessing if you know a monster is barely on his feet with 1 or 2 hp left, where any excess damage is just wasted. Especially if you are using bloodclaw, weapon focus and leader damage riders, the difference is maximum 9 damage at level 28. (If you are not using an axe or hammer where i can actually be 16)
Just for Dausuul: i still wouldn´t take sure strike on most builds. I would rather take an encounter or daily which trades damage for accuracy then.

So... by your own admission, and even optimizing for one of the perfect cases for sure strike, you STILL wouldn't take it.

Yeah, real good power there.

I've read them and I admit some are better than others. I just disagreed with about 90% of the advice given in the Avenger one. I found that as I was going through the list of powers, it would often say "Don't take this power, it only does 2[w] which is way too low for a Striker power of this level, instead, if you can, multiclass into Rogue and take this power instead". Then I looked at the power and said "Well, it isn't the greatest power in the world but it encourages enemies to stay beside me and attack me which is the primary goal of my character...it doesn't do that much damage but if all the enemies attack you, it does way more damage. I think I'm going to take it."

Meanwhile the handbook claimed it was the worst power of its level. It didn't go into any explanation as to why it might be a GOOD power some of the time or even say some builds of Avenger might want it. It just said "not worth taking...too low damage, and as a striker all you want is damage".

Yeah, the CharOp boards are a little too stuck to the designation of striker as someone who does lots of damage, and they don't like anything that deviates. Hence the hate for the warlock and the proliferation of not-really-avenger avengers.

Doubly so, damage is very measurable, so again it gets emphasised for strikers.

But outside of that typically the authors of the guides are willing to entertain discussion and alter the guide if you have good points. For instance one of the rogue guides rated garotte as an awful power at one stage with no mention of the fact that a decently built rogue can use it and a couple of other powers to guarantee killing just about anything.