The "Everything Sorcerer" Thread

[Remathilis]

This is NOT a complaint thread.

I'm going to be playing my first sorcerer in 3.5 soon. I'm starting at first level, and I'll probably been the primary arcane caster (There is a cleric/wizard/mystic theruge, but he's starting at 1st level as cleric).

Below is what I'm looking for:

* Best spell choices to take (including spell swaps)

* Feats to grab.

* Prestige Classes (especially ones that don't sacrifice spellcasting progression).

* General Sorcerer Themes to thing about (Summoner, Fire Mage, etc).

I can pick any race (to fit PrC req), and most WotC stuff is Great. The party is mostly good, so no evil-based materials pleased.

 

[Thanee]

Incantatrix is a very good PrC for sorcerers, because it puts emphasis on the metamagic part, which is left a bit in the cold with the base class.

Good metamagic feats include Heighten Spell (one of the best ones for a sorcerer, IMHO), Empower Spell, Twin Spell, Extend Spell, Sculpt Spell, and depending on your playing style, Silent Spell and/or Still Spell might be handy. Sudden Maximize can also be good, but it's the only sudden feat worth a look, I think. In some cases Split Ray can also be very useful.

Other than that, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus can be useful, if you use some spells, where the target really should fail the save. Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration are good, if you plan to use a lot of area spells, otherwise Assay Resistance [CA] is a superior choice.

Spells... well, there are a lot of good spells out there. Here are some for your consideration:

1st - Magic Missile, Ray of Enfeeblement, Unseen Servant
2nd - False Life, Glitterdust, Scorching Ray, Resist Energy
3rd - Slow, Fireball, Suggestion, Dragonskin [Drac]
4th - Polymorph, Dimension Door, Evard's Black Tentacles, Assay Resistance [CA], Orb of Force [CA]
5th - Greater Blink [CA], Fleshshiver [PGtF], Firebrand [PGtF], Draconic Polymorph [Drac]

Bye
Thanee

 

[Infiniti2000]

Take a look at IcyCool's thread and in particular the links Nail provided and Thanee's spoiler block.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Incantatrix is a very good PrC for sorcerers, because it puts emphasis on the metamagic part, which is left a bit in the cold with the base class.

Just keep an eye on the errata for this PrC.

 

[Ero Gaki]

Heh, and naturally, the errata takes away one of the main advantages of the instant metamagic ability. Way to go, Wizards!! Your nerfing kung-fu is strong. I hope you kick yourselves in the left eye.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Incantatrix is a very good PrC for sorcerers, because it puts emphasis on the metamagic part, which is left a bit in the cold with the base class.

Good metamagic feats include Heighten Spell (one of the best ones for a sorcerer, IMHO), Empower Spell, Twin Spell, Extend Spell, Sculpt Spell, and depending on your playing style, Silent Spell and/or Still Spell might be handy. Sudden Maximize can also be good, but it's the only sudden feat worth a look, I think. In some cases Split Ray can also be very useful.

Other than that, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus can be useful, if you use some spells, where the target really should fail the save. Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration are good, if you plan to use a lot of area spells, otherwise Assay Resistance [CA] is a superior choice.

Well, I believe this is an old discussion, but I disagree with the Notion that Heighten Spell is any good. If you don't have a decent spell on that level, Empower spell is still better than Heighten. In real life play, I (including all spellcasters of my group in our various campaigns) never encountered a situation in which I needed to penetrate a Glove of Invulnerability or similar effect, and where +50% damage weren't better than +2 savng throw DC.

From the core feats, Spell Penetration, Skill Focus (Concentration), Empower Spell and Extend Spell, Combat Casting, Improved Initiative, Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot are good feats.

Spells... well, there are a lot of good spells out there. Here are some for your consideration:

1st - Magic Missile, Ray of Enfeeblement, Unseen Servant
2nd - False Life, Glitterdust, Scorching Ray, Resist Energy
3rd - Slow, Fireball, Suggestion, Dragonskin [Drac]
4th - Polymorph, Dimension Door, Evard's Black Tentacles, Assay Resistance [CA], Orb of Force [CA]
5th - Greater Blink [CA], Fleshshiver [PGtF], Firebrand [PGtF], Draconic Polymorph [Drac]

Bye
Thanee

I agree with the spell list (at least those that I know, some of them are from supplements I don't own), but I would not forget to add Haste. The 3.5 version doesn't give actions (while slow still takes them), but it affects the whole group. The Fighters will be grateful for the added mobility and extra attacks...
On 2nd level, it might be good to consider Melfs Acid Arrow instead of Scorching Ray, or in additon to it. It it is one of the few spells a sorceror can throw against one of those nasty golems, though I must admit that 2d4 damage (even over multiple rounds) is probably not a shaker. (And a Haste might be more useful)

Mage Armor seems to be a must until you can get Bracers of Armor +4 (if you have a monk in your group, it might stay longer, until he can get the item too). Shield is a nice option, but to tell the truth, due to the low duration, you seldomly actually cast it...

 

[Thanee]

Well, I believe this is an old discussion, but I disagree with the Notion that Heighten Spell is any good. If you don't have a decent spell on that level, Empower spell is still better than Heighten. In real life play, I (including all spellcasters of my group in our various campaigns) never encountered a situation in which I needed to penetrate a Glove of Invulnerability or similar effect, and where +50% damage weren't better than +2 savng throw DC.

I think you are missing the point of Heighten Spell here. It's not for spells like Fireball, but for spells like Glitterdust or Slow.

The big advantage is, that a sorcerer will have a few lower level spells, which can be used as a substitute for higher level spells (like the two mentioned above), therefore, when the sorcerer reaches a higher level, there will not only be one useful spell, but a few (empowered Fireballs certainly count here as well), which can be used with the high level slots. More level-appropriate options = good!


As for the spells, it surely isn't a complete list, not meant as a list of spells one should cover completely. Just a list of some spells, which came to mind and which are good for a sorcerer.

And yeah, the Incantatrix errata should be pointed to as well. Thanks!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think you are missing the point of Heighten Spell here. It's not for spells like Fireball, but for spells like Glitterdust or Slow.

The big advantage is, that a sorcerer will have a few lower level spells, which can be used as a substitute for higher level spells (like the two mentioned above), therefore, when the sorcerer reaches a higher level, there will not only be one useful spell, but a few (empowered Fireballs certainly count here as well), which can be used with the high level slots. More level-appropriate options = good!

I don't think that Heighten Spell can heighten a spell to a level-appropriate option. It's not merely the saving throw that matters. Glitterdust is useful regardless of level (since the blindness effect is secondary). Slow I might see, but I think it would still be better to use a spell of the intented level (even if it doesn't have the same effect as slow )

PS:
But I guess we both will just have to agree to disagree. The Original poster of the thread should take our arguments into advisement and come to his own conclusion

 

[Shayuri]

A few points to consider as addendums to the above (quite useful) commentary:

1) Try to get spells of more than one or two energy types...or of "nonenergy" varieties such as Force or weird ones like Horrid Wilting. If you focus on one energy type, it means you're far too easy to thwart with a single anti-energy spell. This is far more an issue for sorcerors, since you can't vary your spells easily. Look at feats like Energy Substitution to cover any holes you might have. Consider spells like Orb of Sound, or Lesser Orb of Sound too, just for a bit of hard to defend against punch.

2) Metamagic is best used by sorcerors to expand the utility of their low level spells. To this end, feats like Empower and Heighten are both quite good, depending on if you're focusing on straight damage dealing (use Empower) or save-or-die (use Heighten). Support sorcerors will use Extend Spell a lot, for similar reasons.

3) Sorcerors have problems with grapples, more so than wizards. They can't use tricksey Still Spells to get out. Pretty much the only recourse they have is Dimension Door, barring funky non-core rules. Other options include Blink (if triggered before you're grappled, you can escape while ethereal), or magic items that provide Freedom of Movement or magic transportation. It doesn't matter what you do, really, but -definitely- do SOMETHING.

4) When selecting buffs, keep your 'theme' in mind. If you're an artillery sorc, you don't want to spend three rounds of each battle buffing before you cut loose with your big guns. Conversely, if you're a support sorc, you'll want some defenses in place before you start layering magic might on your pals. Get a mix of durations, and keep a special eye out for those precious 1 hour/level spells that you can 'fire and forget' early in the day. Never skimp on energy-protection spells, shield (as much to resist MM as for AC bonus), and a %miss chance spell like Blur, Displacement, or Blink (I include Mirror Image in this bunch too).

5) Stick to your theme. A sorceror -cannot- do it all. Some spell choices are generically useful for any build, but for the most part you'll want to pick spells that directly benefit your chosen role in the party. Always be aware of spells that are on other people's lists...if the cleric can cast Scry, does it matter if you can? If the Bard has charms and illusions, do you need them?

Have fun!

 

[Wish]

I have found one good use for Heighten Spell. When combined with Earth Spell (Races of Stone), you get some real bang. Each level of heightening with Earth Spell gives +2 spell level and +1 caster level. A 10th level caster heightening a glitterdust to 5th spell level would have it go off as if it were an 8th level spell cast by a 13th level caster. There are some restrictions on it - doesn't work on air, fire or water descriptor spells, and only when you're standing on the ground.