The Expanded Psionics Handbook Confirmed Information Thread

[Ashrem Bayle]

In most cases, XPH classes do not require XP expenditure to learn new powers upon obtaining a level; however, if the cognition thief's class happened to have a base class that required XP to learn powers, then the thief wouldn't have to worry about it when learning new powers using the cognition thief's bonus powers known ability.

Hmmm.... :\

From the Wilders writeup, we know they don't. So, from the above quote, it looks like at least one of the other three will be spending some XP.

 

[Stalker0]

[/quote]
It just slows the game down. Plus it isn't that much of a hassle to house rule it to use a d20 instead of 10.[/QUOTE]

It was slower, but it was kind of nice to have that distinct seperation between magic and psionics

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

It just slows the game down. Plus it isn't that much of a hassle to house rule it to use a d20 instead of 10.

It was slower, but it was kind of nice to have that distinct seperation between magic and psionics

It was also unbalanced. The first time I used mind blast as a DM I rolled a "20" to set the save DC. That wasn't fun for the players.

The d20 set DC system should not be used for powers that can affect more than one opponent.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Hmmm.... :\

From the Wilders writeup, we know they don't. So, from the above quote, it looks like at least one of the other three will be spending some XP.

Where's that Bruce Cordell quote from?

 

[I'm A Banana]

House Rule #2 on the horizon, if paying XP is an integral part of their design....I don't like that bit at all.....

Of course, it could be more like spell research, and that I'm pretty cool with paying XP for....

House Rule #1, of course, is basing all powers off of Intelligence.....blech. I'll probably let individual disciplines make the choice (all powers a Telepath uses are Cha, all powers a Nomad uses are Dex, etc.)

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The quote came from BRC.

House Rule #2 on the horizon, if paying XP is an integral part of their design....I don't like that bit at all.....

Of course, it could be more like spell research, and that I'm pretty cool with paying XP for....

It's more like the latter.

House Rule #1, of course, is basing all powers off of Intelligence.....blech. I'll probably let individual disciplines make the choice (all powers a Telepath uses are Cha, all powers a Nomad uses are Dex, etc.)

Uh oh... wizardly polymorph would break that house rule wide open, so would mind switch. Let's not forget that savants would be way too good, too... Constitution is already an amazing stat, and this is just double dipping.

And on another note, you could reduce your stats with shapechanging, so you could lose access to power. It's just a bad idea all-round.

 

[Hardhead]

The quote came from BRC.

Uh oh... wizardly polymorph would break that house rule wide open, so would mind switch. Let's not forget that savants would be way too good, too... Constitution is already an amazing stat, and this is just double dipping.

Yeah, basing saves off of physical stats was a big problem with 3.0 Psionics.

"I Polymorph into something with a high DEX (or Mind Switch). Hey, look, my Psychoportation saves are pretty much impossible now!"

If you want to keep MAD-like stuff, I suggest basing them all of of mental stats. Like CHA is Telepathy and Psychoportation, WIS is Clairsentience and Psychometabolism, and INT is Psychokinesis and Metacreativity.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Well, I've been working with a more palatable form of polymorphing for a while now....it's just a loose-all-your-own, gain-all-the-new kind of spell IMC. So polymorphing isn't a concern....can't cast spells while in the form except the form's spells anyway. There is an HD limit on it, now (of your level), but there's no casting-spells-as-an-ettin-ing.

Certian monster abilities have physical stat DC's, so it's definately got prescedence....

Ability score things aren't that big of a deal. The usefulness of Con in general is offset by the 1d4 HD....even with an extreme Con, they're not racking up immense hp without multiclassing, which weakens their spellcasting. The usefulness of Dex in general is offset by the fact that they need a pretty high one anyway, without armor. The usefulness of Strength is offset by the fact that they have a low BAB.

And they won't have MAD, because every Nomad will use Only Dex, for instance. Every Savant will only use Strength. Even if they cast Telepathy. I'll describe them slightly differently ("The Savant's mental energies barge into your skull and sit there, daring all comers to thwart them"). I'll have to look at the rules before issuing the final judgement, but tentatively, this is the idea.

But the main reason I want it is for flavor. I don't want another Wizard. I've got a Wizard. I don't want another cleric or bard. I've got 'em. I want a sort of magical mystic, who derives innate energies from their physical honing as much as their mental honing. Sort of a Monk of Magic. I like the concept of someone honing their body enough that it produces magical effects -- they increase their speed and agility to such exteme hights that they learn to teleport just by running fast. They have surpassed mortal limits through *physical* effort, not just magical manipulation.

I've got the mystic holy man (Cleric), I've got the mystic academian (Wizard), I've got the mystic diplomat (Bard...ish). What I want is the mystic acrobat, the mystic strongman, the mystic tank....the ones who can, say, manipulate the matter within themselves by concentrating, because their bodies are such physical specimines. The ones who can run so fast that they teleport. The ones who are so mighty that simply by concentrating, using mental force, they can become more.

I don't need another bloody Wizard, even one with psychic 'domains.'

Of course, this is all hinging on me actually reading the book; I'm just making tentative calls, here. If they give me a good enough justification for Intelligence, or for no physical abilities, I may be inclined to agree....so far, no good.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

The easiest house rule if basing powers off physical stats, is to not have the save DCs go up if they polymorph or mindswitch...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Well, I've been working with a more palatable form of polymorphing for a while now....it's just a loose-all-your-own, gain-all-the-new kind of spell IMC. So polymorphing isn't a concern....can't cast spells while in the form except the form's spells anyway. There is an HD limit on it, now (of your level), but there's no casting-spells-as-an-ettin-ing.

Certian monster abilities have physical stat DC's, so it's definately got prescedence....

I've never seen a class that lets you kill people while using a physical ability score to set the save DC. Maybe such a class exists, but I hope to never see it.

Ability score things aren't that big of a deal. The usefulness of Con in general is offset by the 1d4 HD....even with an extreme Con, they're not racking up immense hp without multiclassing, which weakens their spellcasting. The usefulness of Dex in general is offset by the fact that they need a pretty high one anyway, without armor. The usefulness of Strength is offset by the fact that they have a low BAB.

No, I can't agree with this. If a DM runs such a system, the players should always play savants.

I've done a little testing for the Mind's Eye, and I recall telling a player that to test a certain PrC he had to be a shaper and not a savant. Talk about a shouting match...

Now lets look at hit points:

Ftr20, starting Con 14, +6 amulet of health. Hit point score: 174.5 average.

Sav20, staring Con 15, final Con 20, +6 amulet of health (there really should be a psionic equivalent a psion could make for himself). Hit point score: 211.5 average. So now the psion has more hit points than the fighter, and can manifest great defensive powers like reddopsi, shield of prudence and inertial barrier, while sitting back safer in the back dishing out disintegrate after disintegrate. This is before the psion manifests vigor.

Here Con is just too useful.

And they won't have MAD, because every Nomad will use Only Dex, for instance. Every Savant will only use Strength. Even if they cast Telepathy. I'll describe them slightly differently ("The Savant's mental energies barge into your skull and sit there, daring all comers to thwart them"). I'll have to look at the rules before issuing the final judgement, but tentatively, this is the idea.

Well, you've fixed the underpowered aspect of MAD, but you need to fix the overpowered aspect of MAD, as well.

You still haven't told us what house rules you would need for mind switch, magic jar or psychofeedback, for instance. Furthermore, your house rule included changes to the core rules as well, which not every DM would want to do. (IYC you've changed polymorph alread, for other reasons, but the XPH cannot make such assumptions about people's campaigns.)

they learn to teleport just by running fast. They have surpassed mortal limits through *physical* effort, not just magical manipulation.

That would make great flavor text for teleport (Please Save My Earth) but it doesn't strictly require Dexterity.

The easiest house rule if basing powers off physical stats, is to not have the save DCs go up if they polymorph or mindswitch...

That's not going to work either. When you use mind switch you now use someone else's stats. Things are going to get really weird if you have to keep track of two sets of stats, when both sets of stats are permanent (even though one set hardly counts anymore).

Things will only get messier if you polymorph or mind switch with a weaker form. Even if the save DCs don't change, you just lost your ability to manifest powers. If you used mind switch and got trapped in the new body with physical stats below 16, you won't be able to escape.