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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 7977899" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>Boy, you <em>AREN'T</em> recalling lore, you are adventuring FOR IT! No where under <em>crafting magic items</em> is recalling lore mentioned. Oh, and in case you never realized it, you can make an Intelligence check for "lore" <em>without</em> proficiency in Arcana. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite11" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes :rolleyes:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> </p><p></p><p>First, you need the formula for the magic item. You aren't recalling it, you have to find it. It is part of the adventure of crafting such items. Once you have the formula, you need the materials and will adventure for some (most? all? up to the DM... several examples are given) of those as well. You also need the time and money covering other expenses (other materials, tool, etc.). Finally, you need the tool proficiency for crafting the item OR proficiency in the Arcana skill. Notice in the text it says "or", not "and".</p><p></p><p>Once you have proficiency in the tool <em>or</em> Arcana, have the formula or "recipe", special materials, and money for extras, you spend the time and <em>voilà!</em> new magic item.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>He adventured for that knowledge. Maybe he found a tome or plans with details on it? Maybe the DM had him travel to an ancient library and he had to make an Intelligence (Investigation) check to find it? I don't care, that is up to the DM. But, he certainly doesn't just <em>know</em> what he needs by having Arcana or making a check.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok, even if the DM rules checks are needed (note, Arcana proficiency is NOT, it is an Intelligence check and the DM can grant you your proficiency bonus if the PC has it, but the PC certainly is NOT required to...) duing the course of the adventure, when it comes to <em>crafting the magic item and mixing the "stew" together</em>, there is no check involved.</p><p></p><p>Just as there is not check involved if you spend the time and money making a normal sword or suit of leather armor. All that is required is the tool proficiency, time, and money. The DM can impose a check for success if they wish, of course they can, but it isn't part of the system.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hmm... well, we were discussing CRAFTING MAGIC ITEMS, not scribing spell scrolls. I don't care if it was part of your OP, it wasn't part of our discussion. If it makes you feel any better, of course you need Arcana for spells scrolls, it is written right there under the section on <em>Scribing a Spell Scroll</em>.</p><p></p><p>The section on <em>crafting magic items</em> only mentions proficiency in Arcana one time, as an <em>option </em>if you lack the necessary tool proficiency.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>LOL of course you <em>won't</em> because you <em>can't</em>. You keep saying you need proficiency in Arcana for <em>crafting magic items</em> and you simply don't. You need tool proficiency (or Arcana) and even if your DM requires checks, they are Intelligence checks. I'm not saying having proficiency in Arcana won't help with <em>those</em> checks, but the simple fact is you don't NEED proficiency in Arcana.</p><p></p><p>My original points:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you don't need proficiency in Arcana (you said you do, but as we both know that it is only needed in the case of scribing spell scrolls).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you don't need to make a check (of <em>any</em>) kind to succeed in crafting the magic item provided you have the tool proficiency or Arcana proficiency, the formula, special materials, time, and money. The DM can add one, but it isn't part of the system as presented.</li> </ul><p></p><p>Arcana is <em>only </em>necessary in the case of spell scrolls. Period.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 7977899, member: 6987520"] Boy, you [I]AREN'T[/I] recalling lore, you are adventuring FOR IT! No where under [I]crafting magic items[/I] is recalling lore mentioned. Oh, and in case you never realized it, you can make an Intelligence check for "lore" [I]without[/I] proficiency in Arcana. :rolleyes: First, you need the formula for the magic item. You aren't recalling it, you have to find it. It is part of the adventure of crafting such items. Once you have the formula, you need the materials and will adventure for some (most? all? up to the DM... several examples are given) of those as well. You also need the time and money covering other expenses (other materials, tool, etc.). Finally, you need the tool proficiency for crafting the item OR proficiency in the Arcana skill. Notice in the text it says "or", not "and". Once you have proficiency in the tool [I]or[/I] Arcana, have the formula or "recipe", special materials, and money for extras, you spend the time and [I]voilà![/I] new magic item. He adventured for that knowledge. Maybe he found a tome or plans with details on it? Maybe the DM had him travel to an ancient library and he had to make an Intelligence (Investigation) check to find it? I don't care, that is up to the DM. But, he certainly doesn't just [I]know[/I] what he needs by having Arcana or making a check. Ok, even if the DM rules checks are needed (note, Arcana proficiency is NOT, it is an Intelligence check and the DM can grant you your proficiency bonus if the PC has it, but the PC certainly is NOT required to...) duing the course of the adventure, when it comes to [I]crafting the magic item and mixing the "stew" together[/I], there is no check involved. Just as there is not check involved if you spend the time and money making a normal sword or suit of leather armor. All that is required is the tool proficiency, time, and money. The DM can impose a check for success if they wish, of course they can, but it isn't part of the system. Hmm... well, we were discussing CRAFTING MAGIC ITEMS, not scribing spell scrolls. I don't care if it was part of your OP, it wasn't part of our discussion. If it makes you feel any better, of course you need Arcana for spells scrolls, it is written right there under the section on [I]Scribing a Spell Scroll[/I]. The section on [I]crafting magic items[/I] only mentions proficiency in Arcana one time, as an [I]option [/I]if you lack the necessary tool proficiency. LOL of course you [I]won't[/I] because you [I]can't[/I]. You keep saying you need proficiency in Arcana for [I]crafting magic items[/I] and you simply don't. You need tool proficiency (or Arcana) and even if your DM requires checks, they are Intelligence checks. I'm not saying having proficiency in Arcana won't help with [I]those[/I] checks, but the simple fact is you don't NEED proficiency in Arcana. My original points: [LIST] [*]you don't need proficiency in Arcana (you said you do, but as we both know that it is only needed in the case of scribing spell scrolls). [*]you don't need to make a check (of [I]any[/I]) kind to succeed in crafting the magic item provided you have the tool proficiency or Arcana proficiency, the formula, special materials, time, and money. The DM can add one, but it isn't part of the system as presented. [/LIST] Arcana is [I]only [/I]necessary in the case of spell scrolls. Period. [/QUOTE]
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