The First Five Books (after core)

[Stormonu]

0. Beginner Set to release before or at the same time as core.
1. Campaign Setting (FR, Greyhawk or Eberron)
2. Class options book (Fighting feats, Skill tricks, Spells)
3. Race options book
4. Dungeon mag w/ 3 adventures a month (low, medium, high level) IN DEAD TREE and PDF format
5. Dragon mag w/ DM advice and modular options IN DEAD TREE and PDF format

 

[steeldragons]

"The First Five Books (after core)" seems to demand that we know what "Core" is.

I'd like to see this:

"Core"
1) Starter/"D&D Adventurer's" box set. Details starting play and levels 1-5. Players Guide, DM's Guide, Monster Digest (50 creatures to get started with), Magic/Spell Digest (all caster classes spells but only a limtied list of what they need for PC levels - not "spell levels"- 1-5), Self-contained Adventure (a la village of Hommlet more than Keep on the Borderlands: with 3-6 possible adventures: at least , an NPC/interaction based adventure, Skill-based adventure/exploration, Heavy combat-oriented adventure and a "classic" dungeon delve that should incorporate all of these things), set of dice.

2) "Advanced Player's Handbook" detail levels 1-20. Expanded Skills, maybe the full list of Races and Classes if these aren't all presented in the Starter Box.

3) "The Dungeonmaster's Guide." With everything that a DMG needs to
have for the "full" (levels 1-20) game.

4) "The Monster Manual." Significantly more extensive and thorough than the Monster Digest of the Adventurer's set. Brilliantly illustrated.

5) since we know that Forgotten Realms is the default setting for 5e, then a "Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting" book. This should be put out as part of the core for those who want to jump right in.

There's our core. All need to be published at the same time...or within a span of a month or two to get all 5.

And a month after that...
-1a) "The Adventurers' Path" Series. 4 or 6 fulling fleshed out adventure modules of all kinds and foci for levels 1-5.

Following that...(what the OP is actually asking for in this thread)

6) The Expert/"Champions" box set. Detailing levels 5-10. Players Guide, DM's Guide, Spell Digest (not adding to the low level spells of the beginner set, just introducing spells needed for PCs levels up to 10.) A Monster Digest is not necessary here since you would already have the original and the full MM (which I expect to have, roughly 200 "monsters" in it). But, if necessary, another minimal 50-creature Monster Digest.

7) "The Legends Handbook." Details for players and DMs on "Epic" style game play (levels 20+)

8) "Deities & Demigods." Detailing a few pantheons (a "core" Greyhawk, maybe a pruned down "core" of FR, 1 or 2 real world pantheons, but really barebones of those). But more importantly guidelines for creating your own! Guidelines for creating/incorporating various religious organizations, temple/church hierarchies, cults. World mythologies that make sense and can be applied to any setting you want. Setting up a mono-/duo-/and polytheistic mythology, an animist/spirit-based (as opposed to "god based") system.

9) "The Dungeonmaster's World Builder." Detailing creating and expanding your own settings...and everything that goes into that: making various nations/governments, economies, natural (and supernatural) resources, "believable" settlements/communities, NPC creation, Domain/kingdom creation, Mass Combat, etc. etc.

10) "Manual of the Planes." Details a "default" cosmology and gives ideas/guidelines for generating your own. Introduce "Plancescape" type adventuring, Sigil, etc. Preferably packaged with a Plane-jumping/traveling adventure.

Also, dispersed out through this time:
-6a) "The Champions' Quest" Series. 4 or 6 fulling fleshed out adventure modules of all kinds and foci for levels 5-10.

-11a) [see below] "The Heroes' Challenge" Series. 4 to 6 fully fleshed out adventure modules of all kinds and foci for levels 10-20 (say, 2 or 3 for 10-15 and 2 or 3 for 15-20).

-7a) "The Legends' Myth" Series. 3 fully fleshed out adventure modules of all kinds and foci for levels 20+....for those that pick up the Legends Handbook and want to dive straight into Epic play.

Again, all of these "secondary" books and products need to be released around/within the same timeframe, say within 3 to 6 months.

[PS: This is also the timeframe when the NEW 5e-modeled D&D cartoon should begin airing. ]

Moving on...to the "not asked for" third set of releases...

11) The "Heroes" Box Set: Players guide, DMs Guide, Spell Digest. Detailing play for character levels 10-20. (DMs are pointed to the "new Fiend Folio" for additional monsters and creatures appropriate for this "higher level" play)

12) "The Fiend Folio." A Monster Manual 2 but chock full of things we've NEVER seen before (and/or stuff people are screaming for that were cut/forgotten in the original MM). Or maybe with a focus on extra-planar creatures?

13) "The Greyhawk Campaign Setting." Fully fleshed out, like the FR book, for the original Greyhawk setting...preferably with a COMPLETE version of Castle Greyhawk packaged with it.

14) "The Explorers Survival Guide." Basically a "Wilderness Survival guide" and "Dungeoneer's Survival guide" rolled into one. LOOOOTS of different add-on modular stuff: extra/expanded Skills, detailing types of terrain and threats thereof, exposure/fatigue/movement rates, sea-bassed and aerial adventuring, maybe an extra/new class or variants or two. (My reasoning for this here/this late in the release schedule is that, basically, players and DMs should have a complete mastery and explored many different options and modules of play with the "basics" stuff before adding MORE modular options they might want to incorporate.)

15) "The Planescape Campaign Setting". Fully fleshed out, a la FR and Greyhawk, expanding on what was introduced in the Manual of the Planes and presenting the full blown "Planescape" setting as its own world(s) for use.

I thiiiiink...that about does it for me. The rest can be various supplements and adventure modules geared toward different levels of play (within the existing "Series" presented above) and/or Campaign Setting specific things: "Adventures in...[FR, Greyhawk, Planescape, Ravenloft, etc.]" Series; "Races of the Planes"; "The Complete Elves of the Realms" (for FR, obviously); "The Greats of Greyhawk" (NPC compendium and possible adventure ideas in GH); etc. etc. ad infinitum.

AND, I want to be clear in noting, as much as I LOVE the classic modules and stuff, all of the published adventures (either as complete campaign paths or individual contained stories) should be NEW...ok, maybe ONE homage to a classic in each series reworked for 5e...but all of the others should be NEW!

We've "Returned" to the ToH and the KotB and the ToEE and all of that. If they want to release a "5e converted version of whatever", that's fine. But no more "rewrites/additions" just convert the old modules and leave it at that. We don't need to "Return to..." anywhere anymore. NEWLY WRITTEN adventure modules, please.

--SD

 

[drothgery]

I'm going to come out definitely against a beginner box that comes out before core (as that almost certainly means it won't match up exactly with the final rules), and probably against one at the same time as core because I'd want a few months of the final game 'in the wild' to catch issues that need fixing before making a beginner box.

Characters made using the beginner box must be 100% compatible with the final game, and I think beginners are far less likely to check the web for rules updates.

 

[Sunseeker]

I'm going to come out definitely against a beginner box that comes out before core (as that almost certainly means it won't match up exactly with the final rules), and probably against one at the same time as core because I'd want a few months of the final game 'in the wild' to catch issues that need fixing before making a beginner box.

Characters made using the beginner box must be 100% compatible with the final game, and I think beginners are far less likely to check the web for rules updates.

I agree with this, especially the last part. Though I think they will be, "beginner box" characters will likely just have less material to work with.

I also doubt a beginner box will come out first, mostly on the grounds that if people can get ahold of the "rules light", they may not buy the rules proper.

 

[drothgery]

I agree with this, especially the last part. Though I think they will be, "beginner box" characters will likely just have less material to work with.

I also doubt a beginner box will come out first, mostly on the grounds that if people can get ahold of the "rules light", they may not buy the rules proper.

I'd hope not, but with 3e, 4e, and Essentials WotC released intro/beginner sets before the final new/updated game that had you end up with characters that couldn't be used directly in the 'real' game.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think the only urgent books to be published asap after the core rules are:

1) A campaign setting sourcebook (whatever setting they choose to publish as first)

2) A cheap adventure, 50-100 pages, starting at level 1 and meant to allow a playing group to "test run" the rules of 5ed

3) A big adventure or more likely story arc, 200-300 pages, spanning something like 5 levels at least (starting low level but not necessarily 1st), and designed to be easily deployed both into the campaign setting at point 1) or otherwise into a generic setting. But meant to become memorable, the iconic 5e great title that everybody who played 5e will remember forever (e.g. "the ToEE of 5e").

I don't think there is much need for books of "crunch" for at least 6 months, so they can probably use this time period for more adventures or campaign settings.

Technically at this point we're already past the first 5 books...

Somewhere around 6 months later, IMHO they can already publish a PHB2 (containing character options which were PHB leftovers, much like the 5 first splatbooks of 3ed were made of) and a DMG2 (containing modules that were not considered essential for the DMG). I think 6 months of waiting should allow the designers to review and refine the content to avoid problems. However I would really like a PHB2 that offers vertical development (i.e. more material for the existing core classes, to make them more versatile) rather than horizontal development (i.e. more classes).

 

[steeldragons]

No matter what or how or when or where they put into the PHB and DMG, there is absolutely NO reason under heaven or earth...or the 9 hells, for that matter, that I should need to purchase a PHB "2" or a DMG "2".

If the material is not worthy of going into the first edition of the 5e PHB or DMG then, obviously, I do not NEED it! It belongs in something else...an "Unearthed Arcana", perhaps, of some other expansion/splat book.

Do not DARE to publish a "PHB2" or a "DMG2." Nonsense and filthy garbage.

Period.

End of story.

 

[KarinsDad]

Furthermore, the Dragon magazine must burst with articles to support mechanical conversion for Eberron, Dark Sun and Planescape; fluff on the Realms and those worlds.

I think the Dragon magazine should avoid at all costs any articles which add new powers, et cetera to existing classes and races. That was a source of untested cheese in the Fourth Edition.

The Dragon magazine should instead offer a cornucopia of fluff plus several playtesting articles for new classes (Shaman, Swordmage, Artificer, Seeker, Runepriest, et cetera).

I somewhat agree, but somewhat disagree as well.

I think Dragon magazine should stay out of the "new stuff" market completely. No new classes. No new spells. No new items. Nothing in it that falls into the hands of the players.

The reason is precisely what you specified. A significant majority of 4E cheese came from Dragon magazine. Once I prevented that from being used in my games, the PCs became mostly balanced. Dragon from the last few years has been a smorgasbord of untested product, some of which should never have seen the light of day. Especially because some of it bypasses specific game limitations that were put into the main game for a specific balance reason.

Now granted, if the game designers review and playtest everything that goes into Dragon magazine, that would be a different story. But, I suspect that this will never happen. Some editor reads it, gives it the green light, and all sorts of crap gets published.

 

[Tallifer]

I think Dragon magazine should stay out of the "new stuff" market completely. No new classes. No new spells. No new items. Nothing in it that falls into the hands of the players.

Indeed. I tried to say the same thing. I did however add that they could playtest things through the Dragon magazine: it would explicitly be playtest material (like the monk and assassin were a couple of years ago) and it would not appear in the Character Builder, so no Dungeon Master would be compelled to accept it at the table until it was published in a book.

I also think that the Dragon magazine would be a terrific place for all the fluff which some players want for their classes, races, spells and items. There could be articles detailing the background stories for Fiery Swords, Hobbits, Ninja Rangers with two weapons and long descriptions for Fireball. Then all that could be nice and brief in the books allowing for more space for options.

 

[outsider]

Marketing will decide the first few books to come out. The first few books will establish the tone of the new edition. Thus I suspect the first 3 major releases will be the following:

1. Some sort of Wizard splatbook/magic book. A large part of the target audience for 5th ed basically wants wizards to be hugely important/powerful. Thus, this book will beat out any other type of splat book.

2. Campaign setting. More proof that they are returning to their roots.

3. Fighter splat/tactical combat rules book. The 4e fans, on average, will not be very happy with 5e core. In order to please the 4e haters, WotC will be keeping most of the 4e influence out. However, they aren't going to risk alienating an entire edition's worth of customers this time around, so they are going to need to get some 4e style mechanics out there quickly. And nothing says 4e like a fighter with real tactical options.