Secrets of Blackmoor
First Post
So, anyway, now that it's a 5 count time to step out of this and PM Jardr. 

There are no sections in the 4e DMG that really fit what you describe here.what I would say for "example" of 'bad' DM advice...pretty much all of 3.x/PF/4.x/5.x advice for "Encounter Building". I think the majority of that is just bad. It's got too many variables to be useful past the absolute bare minimum ("PC's are 4th level average, CR's of monsters should be around 1 to 5"). No, I'm not going to give specifics...because there aren't any. It's pretty much the entirety of that concept of "Balanced DM Encounter Building for Adventures".
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when the DMG has specific sections denoting "If you take X, add for Y, and factor in Z...your encounter/campaign will be balanced" is... bad.
I'm not sure that the analogy to cooking really works, because I'm not sure that the main goal of RPGing is RPG design.I think that stuff that comes from a player/DM is almost always preferable to looking for a published book that already has that 'idea' written down.
I guess it's kind of like "home cooked meals" vs. "restaurant meals". If someone has spent three and a half decades practicing and improving their cooking skills, I'd rather have that person cook me a meal than someone who may have similar experience, but be 'restricted' to particular brands of food, or amounts of spices, or some prescribed amount of foodstuff. Both meals may taste great...but I see greater value in having the 'home cooked meals' every day than having the restaurant ones.
Whereas I'm far more likely to give a decent hearing to something a player came up with on his own for one simple reason: that player is thinking in terms of this campaign, this setting, this (or these) character(s), right now - meaning his ideas are more likely to be designed to suit it than something that came out of a book thought up by Author X in Game Y with no reference at all to the game I'm running here and now.I didn't say that encouragingh homebrew among players is exercising a high level of control. I said that complaints about players not being creative enough because they wanti to use published material seems to me often to be a GM wanting to exercise a high level of control over the game.
If a GM won't let a player use option XYZ that has (for the sake of argument) been playtested and published by a reputable RPG studio, is that GM really going to let the players go wild with their homebrew ideas? I'm not seeing it.
I show him/her/them at 6, so all is well.And have also reached 5 posts! Without too much spamming. (EDIT: only 4 - apparently my counting/reading sucks.)
Which is cool, but there's another way of approaching it: take what little you know of the historical culture, whether accurate or not, and fill in the rest with whatever you can dream up that's at least vaguely consistent. That's kind of how I've been doing it for nigh-on 35 years now.I wasn't a gamer in the 1970s - I first played D&D in 1982 - but I did read history when I was 14. The first academic history text I remember reading (as opposed to histories written for non-adult readers) was East Asia: The Great Tradition (later combined with its successor volume into a one-volume abridgement called East Asia: Tradition and Transformation). This significantly informed my development of an Oriental Adventures campaign as a 14-year old.
When the DM says "no" that's fair game; not everything is going to fit into every campaign no matter how hard you push. And your example points to a player who seems on the surface to be trying to make it fit by specifically reading up on mechanical and flavourful ideas as to how; the argument here I think is more against the player who doesn't even try to make it fit but just says "it's published, therefore I can use it", leaving it in the DM's lap to somehow make it fit in.A player who wants to play a certain sort of character (say, a wizard of the High Tower) and who reads a supplement that gives ideas on how a wizard of the High Tower might be implemented into the game (mechanically, fictional conceits, etc) is engaging with the game. And is not just asking the GM to "provide a song and dance".
When the GM says "no", or complains about "player entitlement", I don't think that that is encouraging the player to engage further.
It's a matter of trusting the source. Doubtless [MENTION=45197]pming[/MENTION] trusts his friend Chris because they know each other etc., and thus exchanging ideas makes loads of sense (I'm in a similar situation myself). And while I trust TSR/WotC to develop the core of the game I long ago learned not to trust their later add-ons and splats (the 1e Unearthed Arcana taught me that lesson!) and this has been re-proven with each passing edition up to 5e...which somewhat amazingly they haven't managed to butcher yet.I would say that it sounds condescending. You're are extending a courtesy to yourself - you can take ideas from rulebooks, like +3 swords and INT as a stat and % chances of stat loss or stat gain, without being damaged as a RPGer - while accusing contemporary players who want to use ideas and mechanics that they find in books of doing it wrong.
To speak bluntly: that's their problem, not mine.You prefer a game in which there are random chances of stat loss, or other unexpected mechanical degradation to PCs, and in which - presumably - that can be undone (given that you imagine a player planning how to get his/her INT back). But even back in the 1970s and 1980s there were people who weren't too keen on that particular approach to D&D play...
No, but it's a sign of some other things; none of them good....see eg Lewis Pulsipher writing critically about "lottery D&D" in White Dwarf c 1977 - and its relative absence today isn't a sign that players suck.
What about a DM who *can* tell the difference between LotR and Dragonlance, but just doesn't care? Is that a "real DM, by your - I really have to say rather pretentious - definition?And here's my rant in reply: a GM who never reads serious works of literary criticism, who can't tell the difference (from the literary point of view) between LotR and Dragonlance; or between REH's Conan and Thundarr the Barbarian; will never be a great GM, or really even a good one. Competent, sure, nothing wrong with just playing D&D to discover what piece of geography the GM stuck in the next hex. But to become a "real" GM - ie one who can actually frame the players (via their PCs) into gripping and thematically engaging scenes; who can tell when it is time to dial back the pressure and when it is time to push things harder than the players ever thought would happen; who can create a campaign with its own drama, its own meaning, with moral weight that makes the players sweat, and swear, and think that they wouldn't have had just as much fun reading an atlas or an encyclopedia? Not gonna cut it. Such a GM needs to engage with all that "boring" philosophy and literature and criticism and stuff and then apply it to his/her own creative muse.
Also a more practical point: if GM flexibility and improvisation is so important, then why would I bother to work out all the quirks, secrets, pitfalls etc in advance? I'll introduce the necessary story elements when I need them; when they make sense from the point of view of theme, drama, pacing, focus of player attention, etc. (And it also saves on carrying around folders of notes.)
The only LotFP book (well, PDF) that I own is Death Frost Doom - the main schtick of this adventure is actually taken from an old (late-70s, I think) White Dwarf adventure called The Lichway, although the LotFP version is overall more interestingly and cleverly done.I've enjoyed some of the conversation about the game's evolution and DMing.
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Examining both OD&D and 4e side-by-side not only documents the evolution of the game, but also examines gameplay in different ways. Some modern D&D publishers like Lamentations of the Flame Princess, Satyr Press, and Goodman Games purposely address an "old-school" game style focused more on a philosophy of gaming and a DIY aesthetic that is interesting, but is certainly not the only way to play the game.