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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Syltorian" data-source="post: 3597680" data-attributes="member: 17406">I am, more or less. The Church of the Silver Flame is not only Lawful (thus more rigid), it is also a force that manages to communicate with mortals. There may be some variations depending on the Keeper and the Diet, and some evolution, but the basic tenets should stay the same. Individuals and splinter sects might have different ideas, but the Silver Flame itself? And the people it communicates with most directly (i.e. the Keeper)? No, it's not unbelievable that this may have occurred. Actually, it's pretty much certain that it did occur from time to time, in isolated cases. What I find it a bit more unbelievable is that the Church itself would have authorised, supported and encouraged such activity. True. But the little push towards lashing out at the shifters, rather than only true lycanthropes needed the evil weres to push them there. In general, I'm not saying that there were not individual Puritans who got the idea by themselves. Also, the paranoia itself had been created by the lycanthropes, who began spreading through the Reaches and Aundair. Before that, people had not had much contact with lycanthropes. Sure, they existed, but few people would be coming in contact with them. Again I agree in principle. But the Flame doesn't judge most people: that's the point. Human evil should not be met by the sword, but by understanding. The lycanthropes, carrying a new strain of the curse, were a threat, massacring hundreds and thousands of people. They came to help the beleaguered Aundairians, not to enforce their own vision of what is good. It helps that in this case, they were right. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Actually, I don't want to say that it wasn't evil to kill shifters, or that the templars would hold themselves guilt-free. But your average templar doesn't want to be evil. So I believe that if he is given proof of his errors (and isn't called Miko Myazaki), he is going to try to atone. Sincerely. The fiercest of the Puritans might not, but they gained their faith when they saw the templars waging war against the lycanthropes that had invaded their regions, and saw the Flame as much more aggressive. Keith has been pretty clear about that: perceptions of the Flame in Thrane and Aundair are pretty different. The hard-liners are mostly Aundarians, not Thranes. Keith has tried to solve the problem by saying that the creation of the Church-state caused a massive influx from foreign hard-liners, who caused the chaos, and I'm very interested on that idea. It introduces a very interesting element into the episode, apart from conciliating the various views of the Flame.Killing foreigners because they might be potential spies? That would make more sense, but again: why is this focusing on Thrane? Why didn't it happen in Cyre (who was betrayed by everyone else, and would have had a very good reason to hate them), or in Karrnath (who put efficiency above morals, in general)? It's the link to the Church that I don't like, and even there, it's the fact that this is presented as an officially condoned, even encouraged action. Besides, by this account, the Thranes do not blame it on anyone. They don't seem to see it's evil. Sure. After all, lycanthropes aren't persecuted anymore quite the same they were before. They aren't held incurable anymore. But there are some fundamental truth that are pretty difficult to shake. Holding a mass-purge of non-supernatural people is still against the tenets. Even if it happens in isolated locations (and I have no problem with that), it shouldn't be considered normal. And that's what, according to FW, it was. There is the Dark Voice, and it could have influenced some of the uprisings. I'll concede that without any argument. But influencing the Keeper and the entire Diet of Cardinals to get them to encourage such behaviour? Again, my problem is not with the fact that such atrocities happened, it's with the idea that they were the general rule for nearly all of the war, except for the last ten years or so. Regarding the take-over: apperently, the Church was rather surprised by the offer, which might explain why it took them a while to restore order. Of course, the Church might have been involved. Perhaps the Church didn't know anything, but spies from Aundair and Breland tried to stir up a civil war. There is no clear answer, in true Eberron tradition.So, in summary: I'm not against Silver-Flame committed atrocities appearing in the history. But I don't agree with them being commonplace.</blockquote>

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