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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 8683568" data-attributes="member: 177">You seem... woefully optimistic on how obtuse people can be.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />There's one interracial kiss in TOS, and it was controversial in its time.&nbsp; Today, there's commonly interracial couples with mixed-race kids in laundry soap commercials.&nbsp; The point being that the kiss is no longer a stand-out in media.Yes, all remarkable in their day.&nbsp; But, nowadays, those are status quo in sci-fi, and fiction in general.&nbsp; The thing about being progressive is that, if it works, the world progresses, and catches up with where you were. Maybe you've lost what I was saying?&nbsp; I am not saying that Trek hasn't been progressive.&nbsp; I'm saying that older Trek, by modern standards, no longer stands out as progressive.&nbsp; Back in TOS, where was, *gasp&quot; a woman on the bridge.&nbsp; Now, in SNW, the only guys on the bridge are Pike and Spock.&nbsp; TOS had one interracial kiss.&nbsp; Discovery has two queer romantic couples out of three!So, take a modern media viewer.&nbsp; Have them look at TOS.&nbsp; They are apt to miss the fact that it was progressive, because it isn't really ahead of the curve any more - the Overton Window of media has moved, if you will.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 8683568, member: 177"] You seem... woefully optimistic on how obtuse people can be. :p There's one interracial kiss in TOS, and it was controversial in its time. Today, there's commonly interracial couples with mixed-race kids in laundry soap commercials. The point being that the kiss is no longer a stand-out in media. Yes, all remarkable in their day. But, nowadays, those are status quo in sci-fi, and fiction in general. The thing about being progressive is that, if it works, the world progresses, and catches up with where you were. Maybe you've lost what I was saying? I am not saying that Trek hasn't been progressive. I'm saying that older Trek, by modern standards, no longer stands out as progressive. Back in TOS, where was, *gasp" [I]a woman[/I] on the bridge. Now, in SNW, the only guys on the bridge are Pike and Spock. TOS had one interracial kiss. Discovery has two queer romantic couples out of three! So, take a modern media viewer. Have them look at TOS. They are apt to miss the fact that it was progressive, because it isn't really ahead of the curve any more - the Overton Window of media has moved, if you will. [/QUOTE]

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