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The Great Nerf to High Level Martials: The New Grapple Rules
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9240931" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>They also have health, 15 to be exact. They also have weight, 6 lbs. </p><p></p><p>And none of that applies to Rope, the stuff I was talking about. And while a DC 17 to burst rope sounds pretty high, it wouldn't be if you have a +7 to Strength, and we never see her burst ropes with her arms.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, I don't deny that Catwoman would be bad at bending bars, lifting gates, or bursting steel chains. That's kind of my point, she doesn't do those things, so giving her a +7 strength makes no sense. You seem to weigh training and proficiency far higher than you should in these instances. </p><p></p><p>Let's try this. Imagine a Vampire. Vampires in fantasy are incredibly strong. They can throw grown men through brick walls, break steel with their bare hands, rip cell doors from stone.... and in DnD this is represented by an 18 strength. You want to give very athletic woman Selena Kyle a strength of 24 because she jumps good. This does not work.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So no one armed with a sword can harm an Earth Elemental? They are made of stone as well. Heck, a Caster could have animated that stone wall you declare the fighter cannot cut, using Animate Objects, and then, suddenly, the fighter is allowed to cut it? </p><p></p><p>Use Consistent logic.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Where in the PHB does it say more? Sure, the DMG says you need to have the "right tool" and enough time, but other than saying you can't cut through stone with a sword (conveniently forgetting all the times you can) it doesn't say anything more than that. And I'd be a little miffed as a player if I picked a weapon, and then was told a whole bunch of enemies are completely immune to that damage, because "common sense" and not game rules stated so.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, your real point is "alter the scale to make things sound like they are superhero level, and then they are actually superhero level"? </p><p></p><p>Well no duh, I could make a 30 strength fail before the might of a housecat if I just altered all the baseline assumptions about reality enough to make it work.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, spells and magic never actually given to the players, or explicitly forbidden from them. Other than wish, which isn't shaking things in that manner, nothing in 5e that has stats for the players to use has that level of power. Not even close. Destroying a large city is something most player's can't even get close to accomplishing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9240931, member: 6801228"] They also have health, 15 to be exact. They also have weight, 6 lbs. And none of that applies to Rope, the stuff I was talking about. And while a DC 17 to burst rope sounds pretty high, it wouldn't be if you have a +7 to Strength, and we never see her burst ropes with her arms. Sure, I don't deny that Catwoman would be bad at bending bars, lifting gates, or bursting steel chains. That's kind of my point, she doesn't do those things, so giving her a +7 strength makes no sense. You seem to weigh training and proficiency far higher than you should in these instances. Let's try this. Imagine a Vampire. Vampires in fantasy are incredibly strong. They can throw grown men through brick walls, break steel with their bare hands, rip cell doors from stone.... and in DnD this is represented by an 18 strength. You want to give very athletic woman Selena Kyle a strength of 24 because she jumps good. This does not work. So no one armed with a sword can harm an Earth Elemental? They are made of stone as well. Heck, a Caster could have animated that stone wall you declare the fighter cannot cut, using Animate Objects, and then, suddenly, the fighter is allowed to cut it? Use Consistent logic. Where in the PHB does it say more? Sure, the DMG says you need to have the "right tool" and enough time, but other than saying you can't cut through stone with a sword (conveniently forgetting all the times you can) it doesn't say anything more than that. And I'd be a little miffed as a player if I picked a weapon, and then was told a whole bunch of enemies are completely immune to that damage, because "common sense" and not game rules stated so. So, your real point is "alter the scale to make things sound like they are superhero level, and then they are actually superhero level"? Well no duh, I could make a 30 strength fail before the might of a housecat if I just altered all the baseline assumptions about reality enough to make it work. Yeah, spells and magic never actually given to the players, or explicitly forbidden from them. Other than wish, which isn't shaking things in that manner, nothing in 5e that has stats for the players to use has that level of power. Not even close. Destroying a large city is something most player's can't even get close to accomplishing. [/QUOTE]
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