The Half-Level Bonus - Angel or Devil?

[Herremann the Wise]

Hello Everyone,

The half-level bonus is applied to most of the major stats for a 4E character:
• Initiative
• Ability Checks
• Defenses (AC, Fort, Ref, Will)
• Attacks
• Skill Checks

At first, I thought this an excellent relative scaling effect. It seemed to allow for a well-defined relationship between the party and the encounters they faced. After suffering through 3.x at high levels where modifier + d20 vs. DC became hit and miss, almost never finding the sweetspot, turning to a system like this seemed elegant, natural and well conceived. And in all of the 4E play I've been exposed to, this seems to have been borne out (with perhaps the exception of skills but that I think was a different issue).

However the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to see the shortcomings, even if they are on a theoretical/flavour level. In the end, I don't like that the mechanic seems to reward everyone for everything. For example, after a bit of adventuring, a wizard becomes quite the defensive expert, can perform acrobatic and athletics on par with less exposed but highly dextrous or strong characters, and can all of a sudden attack better with a weapon than a 1st level fighter hero who's been doing it since they were young (even without having ever picked up a sword). In terms of gameplay, this doesn't seem to come up much and if it does, it most likely gets glossed over in the milieu (I mean wizards are going to magic their opponents into oblivion rather than beat them to death).

Still, what the figures seem to engender is a case where the PCs are either good at something or average. They are no longer poor at anything. It is almost like the PCs have all become class: adventurer first, and then their chosen class (be it wizard, fighter or rogue) second. There is precious little mechanically-speaking to differentiate the characters aside from the powers they choose. Even using different weaponry or implements seems to matter little (or at least less than I thought it would and should).

So, I suppose while at first I thought the half-level bonus was brilliant, it's now losing its gloss for me. Is it the best mechanic for the job or is there something out there that's better? What do you think of the half-level bonus, Angel or Devil or somewhere in between?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Cor Azer]

I still very much like the half level modifier.

I don't really have a problem with the 10th level wizard being roughly as good with a sword as a first level fighter. My biggest reason for this is that one of the conceits of 4E (at least seems to be) is that the characters are heroes. They are adventurers. The PC rules are not meant to model the reclusive wizard who spends all his time sitting in his lab pouring over ancient tomes - use the NPC rules for him, and dump his weapon attack role way down if you like.

PCs are supposed to be adventurers. They're supposed to see the world, and pick up new things, hear little tidbits, and make connections that the average denizen of the world can't or doesn't because they don't have the same breadth of experience.

 

[Betote]

You have to imagine 4e PCs as something similar to Dragonball characters: they're more than human, they're freakin' heroes, and that'd what the game is about now. So it's not a problem or a unexpected hole in the rules: the 1/2 level bonus to everything reflects exactly the intended result.

That is, by the way, one of the reasons 4e isn't my cup of tea: I want my stories with struggling adventures in the face of danger, not epic heroes kicking asses that become bigger and bigger.

 

[blargney the second]

I still like the half-level bonus. However, I have noticed that people who struggle with arithmetic have a harder time doing the math once they're adding together 2 two-digit numbers (ie a high d20 result and a good modifier). 1/2 level will certainly make things a bit harder for them as they get up in levels.
-blarg

 

[Aus_Snow]

This is one of those things I tried to like, some time back, actually. But it failed to convince me / I failed to see its breathtaking brilliance; or both, perhaps.

I (and my fellow players and GMs) enjoy more disparity than that, even for exceedingly heroic subgenres and campaign styles. And this goes for other rules features too. . .

But yeah, 'devil' I guess. Or 'meh', and I'll leave it for others to enjoy.

 

[knightofround]

I'm a fan of it. I think that its about right that an 18 Str level 1 fighter has about the same level of combat accuracy (if not damage) as an 8 Str level 10 wizard with a weapon proficiency feat. After all, the level 10 wizard is going to be seeing -- and adventuring -- with far better tutors than the level 1 fighter probably ever had.

The scaling defenses is a mechanical godsend. I can understand some people don't like its flavor, (unfortunately it is rather DBZish) but I have no desire to return to 3E's extreme defensive disparities again. It's wonderful to have a relatively consistent to-hit-rate again at all levels.

 

[Runestar]

The half-level bonus seems quite redundant in the game.

So what if the lv20 wizard has a score of +10 in his open lock skill? He will never come across a door with a DC in that range, because any challenge the party does come across will have its DC set to challenge the PC with the highest score in said skill, not the one with the crappiest score.

Assuming there is a rogue in the party with a open lock score of approximately +30 (+10 lv, +5 trained, +6 stat, +5item, +3 skill focus), this means any DC will be at least +40 or higher, meaning the wizard will still never succeed, not even on a natural 20.

So it does not really bother me in the least. The higher lv party will never encounter challenges which will stymie only a low lv party. And the mechanics are such that it ensures that there will be at least a 15-20 point disparity in skill lvs between the PCs. So that 1/2 lv bonus to skills alone can never suffice.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I'm a fan of it. I think that its about right that an 18 Str level 1 fighter has about the same level of combat accuracy (if not damage) as an 8 Str level 10 wizard with a weapon proficiency feat. After all, the level 10 wizard is going to be seeing -- and adventuring -- with far better tutors than the level 1 fighter probably ever had.

It's just a weird situation when the wizard who has never picked up a blade can hit an opponent more effectively with that weapon than a fighter. I suppose the thing is, the wizard completely changed from previous versions into something different, but with the same title.

The scaling defenses is a mechanical godsend... It's wonderful to have a relatively consistent to-hit-rate again at all levels.

I agree with you here even if the rate is the same (half-level) for everything. [Would it have thrown things out too much to have a wizard's fortitude go up by level divided by three rounded down instead?] Anyway, I agree with you here that half-level mechanically evens things up way more smoothly than the multiclassingly erratic BAB and Saving Throw modifiers of 3E. I think there's a solution there in amongst it all that will work for both - I just don't know exactly what it is yet.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Angel

It works. 3E's take on it too often failed to work properly.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

So what if the lv20 wizard has a score of +10 in his open lock skill?

In game? Most probably very little. It's more that the bonus seems undeserved.

He will never come across a door with a DC in that range, because any challenge the party does come across will have its DC set to challenge the PC with the highest score in said skill, not the one with the crappiest score.

That's if you change DCs based on the party's level rather than having an absolute DC determined by the situation (regardless of who's picking open the door). I agree though that in game, this is most likely not even going to come up because the open door specialist is going to open the lock, not the wizard.

So it does not really bother me in the least. The higher lv party will never encounter challenges which will stymie only a low lv party. And the mechanics are such that it ensures that there will be at least a 15-20 point disparity in skill lvs between the PCs. So that 1/2 lv bonus to skills alone can never suffice.

I disagree with your disparity of at least 15-20 points as a baseline and usual. I think you will find the numbers closer than that on the majority of skills, particularly at lower levels. However, as you most likely guessed, I'm not a fan of relative DCs based upon party level. The lock on the church door ain't going to be changing DC just to be a challenge for the party. It is what it is what it is. The half-level bonus most likely goes against such sandbox style play I suppose.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise