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<blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 8922122" data-attributes="member: 7026594"><p>This theory has some plausibility. Most of the retroclone publishers do seem to be a bit older than me and more of them started with B/X than did with my Mentzer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yup.</p><p></p><p>Menzter has one or two genuine improvements, like Magic-Users and Elves getting Read Magic plus another spell, and being permitted to copy spells from scrolls into their own books. For my money, a big part of the fun of playing an M-U is the spell acquisition game. Adding new spells to your book is like a cross between getting new magic items and getting new class abilities. B/X not allowing you to add spells from scrolls or captured spellbooks is a definite oversight.</p><p></p><p>But for the most part Tom Moldvay's Basic (not Dr. J. Eric Holmes; he did the 1977 Basic set) and David Cook's Expert sets from 1981 really nailed a platonic ideal of D&D. </p><p></p><p>Very well edited, with fewer oversights (how long does paralysis from a Ghoul or Gelatinous Cube last? How do you fix it? Moldvay answers these questions; the AD&D PH and DMG do not) and unnecessary complications than AD&D. Their take on the demihuman races, while broadly unpopular compared to splitting race & class, is significantly more balanced than the AD&D version. Much less subject to min/maxing. </p><p></p><p>Mentzer, by comparison, adds some unnecessary complications and rules which no one really uses (like levels 15-36, and weapon mastery). And his Basic set, while one of the best ever designed for explaining to brand new players how to play, with its two solo tutorial adventures in the Players' book, <em>is </em>specifically designed for introducing new players. Those pages are largely wasted for experienced players who need a reference manual and have no need for tutorials. Due to that focus on teaching new players, his version also splits Basic into two separate books, so is less concise and elegant than Moldvay Basic. His version also cripples the Thief beyond its already poor ability % chances due to the decision to spread out its skill advancement over 36 levels instead of 14. Cook Expert promised that Thieves would get NEW amazing ninja-like abilities at levels beyond 14 once a Companion book was released, and then Mentzer's sets reneged on that promise, alas. </p><p></p><p>There are lots of little tiny changes from B/X to Mentzer BE if you're obsessive about it, but the main rules are so close that it's basically a choice between two nearly identical versions, one of which has a few more missteps and (IMO) errors in it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mannahnin, post: 8922122, member: 7026594"] This theory has some plausibility. Most of the retroclone publishers do seem to be a bit older than me and more of them started with B/X than did with my Mentzer. Yup. Menzter has one or two genuine improvements, like Magic-Users and Elves getting Read Magic plus another spell, and being permitted to copy spells from scrolls into their own books. For my money, a big part of the fun of playing an M-U is the spell acquisition game. Adding new spells to your book is like a cross between getting new magic items and getting new class abilities. B/X not allowing you to add spells from scrolls or captured spellbooks is a definite oversight. But for the most part Tom Moldvay's Basic (not Dr. J. Eric Holmes; he did the 1977 Basic set) and David Cook's Expert sets from 1981 really nailed a platonic ideal of D&D. Very well edited, with fewer oversights (how long does paralysis from a Ghoul or Gelatinous Cube last? How do you fix it? Moldvay answers these questions; the AD&D PH and DMG do not) and unnecessary complications than AD&D. Their take on the demihuman races, while broadly unpopular compared to splitting race & class, is significantly more balanced than the AD&D version. Much less subject to min/maxing. Mentzer, by comparison, adds some unnecessary complications and rules which no one really uses (like levels 15-36, and weapon mastery). And his Basic set, while one of the best ever designed for explaining to brand new players how to play, with its two solo tutorial adventures in the Players' book, [I]is [/I]specifically designed for introducing new players. Those pages are largely wasted for experienced players who need a reference manual and have no need for tutorials. Due to that focus on teaching new players, his version also splits Basic into two separate books, so is less concise and elegant than Moldvay Basic. His version also cripples the Thief beyond its already poor ability % chances due to the decision to spread out its skill advancement over 36 levels instead of 14. Cook Expert promised that Thieves would get NEW amazing ninja-like abilities at levels beyond 14 once a Companion book was released, and then Mentzer's sets reneged on that promise, alas. There are lots of little tiny changes from B/X to Mentzer BE if you're obsessive about it, but the main rules are so close that it's basically a choice between two nearly identical versions, one of which has a few more missteps and (IMO) errors in it. [/QUOTE]
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