The Le Games: Apology to the Gaming Community

[frankthedm]

But I have to say that "Other people do it" isn't a defense with this any more than it is with, oh, say, steroids.

But is this the equivalent of Steroid use in Bodybuilding, Steroid use in Pro Wrestling or Steroid use in Baseball? Cause IMHO there damnably are differences on the subject of steroids.

 

[Veander]

Oh TheLe, how crazy of you. I remember one night a couple years back when you were in the dnd3e chat and you just GAVE me four or five of your PDFs for free.

I dunno. I don't go by the overall ratings in here anyway, mostly because I assumed that wasn't the way to really get a good grasp on whether a product is good or not. Instead I find a reviewer or two that I trust and read their conclusion... that's right I don't even read what else they write, just the end, where they say it's good or bad or somewhere in between.

Considering the low amount of unethical behavior here, I think it's balanced by the punishment. Also I don't think this in any way undermines your reviews Crothian. Maybe it shows how the system isn't perfect, but again, one really shouldn't be basing their buying decisions on just the amount of stars.

 

[Failed Saving Throw]

This really doesn't bother me. Anyone who is familiar with user-generated review sites knows that in many more popular sites, companies, authors and PR firms all write fabricated positive reviews almost as a form of viral marketing. At this point I go into reviews expecting to encounter at least a bit of that. Savvy consumers should educate themselves to know the difference between propaganda and sincerity.

This is a pretty common topic of conversation in the forums at harmony-central.com, because over the years it became obvious that companies were posting "all 10s!" reviews of various musical instruments/products.

 

[fatalibert]

I don't care who wrote the reviews. If the reviews discussed the contents of the products then you provided a service to potential buyers.

Reviewers, publishers and authors take note - When I read reviews I'm generally getting a feel for content. I couldn't possibly care less about the personal recommendation or opinions of the reviewer.

If you have to write your own review to get some extra exposure for your products then do it. I'm sure you won't be anymore biased then a fanboy reviewer or a "I get a free sample" reviewer or "I get paid or advertising" reviewer. And if you are I really don't care.

 

[Wyrmshadows]

Apology accepted.

I own a few of your products and I like them. I also like that you are going to support the OGL and its going to take good new products to keep the 3.5e system alive. I am honestly surprised that you did what you did but you are doing the right thing. Good form.


Wyrmshadows

 

[Wyrmshadows]

I don't care who wrote the reviews. If the reviews discussed the contents of the products then you provided a service to potential buyers.

Reviewers, publishers and authors take note - When I read reviews I'm generally getting a feel for content. I couldn't possibly care less about the personal recommendation or opinions of the reviewer.

If you have to write your own review to get some extra exposure for your products then do it. I'm sure you won't be anymore biased then a fanboy reviewer or a "I get a free sample" reviewer or "I get paid or advertising" reviewer. And if you are I really don't care.

I agree. I look for reviews that contain real meat and not so much for the personal impressions of the reviewer but if I have the same tastes as the reviewer personal impressions will have some pact.

However, in regards to posting reviews to get exposure....not ethical in the least because it is a direct conflict of interest and ultimately can invalidate the entire review system and that would be a shame. It is not acceptable to promote yourself in the guise of an unbiased third party.



Wyrmshadows

 

[Wyrmshadows]

This really doesn't bother me. Anyone who is familiar with user-generated review sites knows that in many more popular sites, companies, authors and PR firms all write fabricated positive reviews almost as a form of viral marketing. At this point I go into reviews expecting to encounter at least a bit of that. Savvy consumers should educate themselves to know the difference between propaganda and sincerity.

This is a pretty common topic of conversation in the forums at harmony-central.com, because over the years it became obvious that companies were posting "all 10s!" reviews of various musical instruments/products.

Ah blame the victim..."If you fall for propaganda masquerading as an unbiased review that's your fault." How can you really educate yourself if you can't look at the book prior to purchase? You read reviews of others along with overt company copy designed to sell you a product. Many people don't live in areas with an abundance of gaming supplies that can be purchased easily as a local shop or bookstore...unless you only want to buy WoTC, Warhammer and NWoD products. 3pps rely on the internet and any threat to the social contract that state..."I won't pretend to be someone else and prmote my own materials."

If he posted stating he was LeGames, that would be different. Do you think he would have created a seemingly unrelated alternate identity if the pupose of the reviews were meaningless? Self promotion is fine, but falsifying an objective critique is wrong.



Wyrmshadows

 

[Urizen]

Ah blame the victim..."If you fall for propaganda masquerading as an unbiased review that's your fault." How can you really educate yourself if you can't look at the book prior to purchase? You read reviews of others along with overt company copy designed to sell you a product. Many people don't live in areas with an abundance of gaming supplies that can be purchased easily as a local shop or bookstore...unless you only want to buy WoTC, Warhammer and NWoD products. 3pps rely on the internet and any threat to the social contract that state..."I won't pretend to be someone else and prmote my own materials."

If he posted stating he was LeGames, that would be different. Do you think he would have created a seemingly unrelated alternate identity if the pupose of the reviews were meaningless? Self promotion is fine, but falsifying an objective critique is wrong.

Wyrmshadows

I agree.

Skorched Urf games used to do these little audio-snippets for their pdfs where the publisher talks about the PDF he's just released. The ones I listened to could be heard right at the product page.

In my opinion, this is a great way to comment on your own product(s) to better inform the customer, and certainly more ethical than creating an alias which will erode the trust of your fan base if you get caught.

Off-Topic Wyrmshadows, that quote from Conan is intense!. I might have to steal that from you

 

[deeprlyeh]

Im never said shilling was ok just because he owned up. I did say "I don't agree with it."

I was trying to counter some of the witch hunting posts.

A good shill will have hundreds of posts. Not one or two.

 

[SpiralBound]

A Positive Solution

We can all easily condemn this obviously stupid move. There were numerous actions Le could have taken other than deception. Why he didn't just ask the community for product reviews is beyond me. Sometimes the simplest solutions are those that elude us the most.... If anything, Le has some soul-searching to do now that he's been forced to admit that he is capable of and willing to be this dishonest. A tough truth to swallow. Is this what he wants to be remembered by? Is this who he wants to be? But I digress...

It occurs to me that two problems remain. One, as has been pointed out, more is needed by Le than an apology and a promo sale to regain the trust of the community. Two, there is community-wide distrust in the entire review process, which Le's actions only added further justification for continuing.

I have an idea which could work towards resolving both concerns. If Le is as sorry as he claims to be, then lets see some real reparation beyond more self-promotion. Why not help rebuild trust in product reviews overall? Why not help repair the system that his actions helped to weaken? I propose that The Le Games become a champion for ethical and honest product reviews.

Go beyond "I got caught, sorry guys." and create a resource for customers to use in telling genuine reviews (and reviewers) from the fakes (he should be uniquely qualified to advise on this), create resources for publishers to use in developing ethical alternatives to fake reviews, help publishers find real reviewers so they won't be tempted to follow his bad example, create a resource for reviewers to use to show the community that they are genuine reviewers and not puppets for some other company.

Yes, this is a lot of work. Should true reparation be easy? I don't know the details of what this "ethical reviews" resource would be. Then again, I didn't just get outed for writing fake reviews either. From what I've seen over the years, Le is an intelligent and creative guy, I'm sure that he can develop the necessary details. Also, this need not be a one man show either, part of championing such a cause would include bringing others into it once the initial momentum has been created.