The Legality and Difficulties in Harvesting Compendium Data (Hypothetical)

[Anathos]

I dislike owning ideas as well, but there's ample precedent for this, as disturbing as it is. Software patents are especially despicable. Intellectual property is a term that companies use to whack us over the head with, I don't know why we can't or shouldn't use it to whack back at them.

High level programming language code is copyrighted (but not patented), but machine code (the binary that your computer runs) is not. And while companies and the UK courts use the term Intellectual Property, US courts do not and neither should you when discussing the applicability of laws to works created in the US. Doing so creates the impression that ideas can be owned, and that's the last thing we need.

If I write a "crunch extractor", to translate all powers into generic Power X, Attack W + str type parser, and add in some generic fluff, that would be OK wouldn't it? I mean, you can't own ideas such as a weapon attack does does so and so effect on a hit or a miss, for instance. I think highly codified texts could apply to this standard. Power text can be parsed, maybe with a little help here and there.

This you could do. Copyright covers the specific wording of a work, not the idea contained within that wording. You would still be violating the ToS agreement by using automated access, but the results would be perfectly legal.

 

[malraux]

You can't photocopy a book so that you have a backup version in case the original copy is destroyed.

I'm pretty sure you can. The person use nature of the copying puts it into a pretty safe area. Its the same way I can buy a CD and then rip the contents so I can listen in my car. What is illegal is to distribute those copies.

edit:

Courts have previously found that a use was fair where the use of the copyrighted work was socially beneficial. In particular, U.S. courts have recognized the following fair uses: criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, research and parodies.

In addition, in 1984 the Supreme Court held that time-shifting (for example, private, non-commercial home taping of television programs with a VCR to permit later viewing) is fair use. (Sony Corporation of America v. Universal City Studios, 464 U.S. 417 (1984, S.C.)

Although the legal basis is not completely settled, many lawyers believe that the following (and many other uses) are also fair uses:

Space-shifting or format-shifting - that is, taking content you own in one format and putting it into another format, for personal, non-commercial use. For instance, "ripping" an audio CD (that is, making an MP3-format version of an audio CD that you already own) is considered fair use by many lawyers, based on the 1984 Betamax decision and the 1999 Rio MP3 player decision (RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia, 180 F. 3d 1072, 1079, 9th Circ. 1999.)
Making a personal back-up copy of content you own - for instance, burning a copy of an audio CD you own.

http://w2.eff.org/IP/eff_fair_use_faq.php

 

[Nifft]

I'm pretty sure you can. The person use nature of the copying puts it into a pretty safe area. Its the same way I can buy a CD and then rip the contents so I can listen in my car. What is illegal is to distribute those copies.

edit:
EFF: Fair Use FAQ

Yep yep. The analogy to time-shifting is even plausible: if I wish to browse the Compendium from my laptop while flying somewhere, it could be argued that I'm doing exactly the same thing as if I'd wanted to watch a football game that I had recorded earlier.

(Space-shifting doesn't really work for me, since the data from the Compendium would be viewed on the same device no matter if it were viewed "live" or from a "recording".)

And discussion of illegal activies is well, illegal.

Ah ha ha ha ha. I hope you've merely been playing too much Paranoia.

Cheers, -- N

 

[nnms]

Ripping the compendium is actually quite straight forward. It's just a data base. You either have to know SQL and PHP enough to do it yourself or use a package that people have made to do it for you.

All I can really say is that people are doing it right now. And that such a package exists. Another package floating around torrent sites has the data to a certain date already extracted.

I have not done it myself but I definitely pay attention to file sharing.

I think we're bumping up against what's off limits for discussion here at Enworld though. Anyone looking for a place to discuss this theoretical matter further should probably search google for offline ddi compendium forum rather than talk about it here.

Technically, when you sign up for DDI you agree not to do things like rip it with an automated program. While Wizards probably won't be able to prove damages or go after you in any real fashion, they could certainly refuse your patronage as a DDI customer and cancel your account for doing something like this.

 

[evilref]

If I write a "crunch extractor", to translate all powers into generic Power X, Attack W + str type parser, and add in some generic fluff, that would be OK wouldn't it? I mean, you can't own ideas such as a weapon attack does does so and so effect on a hit or a miss, for instance. I think highly codified texts could apply to this standard. Power text can be parsed, maybe with a little help here and there.

Titles 17, chapter 12 § 1201

The DMCA, overly broad as it is, would apply here.

 

[Dedekind]

haha this reminds me of an author's (maybe?) response in the following conversation. (I paraphrase, btw.)

Audience member: "Why not publish your material for free on the web? The information wants to be free."

Author: "Yeah, but the rent wants to be paid."

 

[Anathos]

Titles 17, chapter 12 § 1201

The DMCA, overly broad as it is, would apply here.

Not really. That covers bypassing security systems, which the system as presented by RLBurnside doesn't do. You aren't bypassing security features when you look stuff up on the Compendium and write a paraphrased version down, you're using the system as intended. All that a program would do is perform that task faster.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

well I have no tech info I can tell you this. I use Master Plan (and recamend it to everyone) and I can tell you that I have liabries pulled from the compandium pre C&D letter... but I have a mosttly up to date one that does not offer that anymore... I have herd from other useres that kept older versions that it no longer works ont he new interface...

I will be honnest as the edtion evolves I fear my masterplan will be less and less useful...then again if it was half as usfull and was for sale...I would buy it for 50 or less dollors...

 

[nnms]

I talked with my brother in law who's a D&D player and a lawyer. WotC's EULA has no weight up here in Canuckistan beyond their right to discontinue service. He read it and told me "go ahead and rip the whole thing-- worst thing that can happen is they cancel your DDI account."

As I'm not a lawyer myself, this obviously does not constitute legal advice.

 

[Jhaelen]

WotC's EULA has no weight up here in Canuckistan beyond their right to discontinue service. He read it and told me "go ahead and rip the whole thing-- worst thing that can happen is they cancel your DDI account."

That's actually true for most EULAs (Microsoft, Blizzard, etc.). Almost all of them include passages that could never be enforced in lots of countries.

But having them cancel your account is usually not something you want to happen