The Lich (Origins)
- Thread starter The Grumpy Celt
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Alzrius
The EN World kitten
No one seems to be paying attention to what The Grumpy Celt actually asked. The origins of the word "lich" are all well and good, but what are the origins of the actual monster? What are the oldest references to a spellcaster becoming an unliving horror?
Beyond the Golem reference (which explains the phylactery), and the reference to Koschei the Undying, not much headway has been made in that regard.
Beyond the Golem reference (which explains the phylactery), and the reference to Koschei the Undying, not much headway has been made in that regard.
One fairly common derivation of this term is that of lich-gate, being the gate through coffins carrying the deceased are brought into a church. We have such a construction attached to our church grounds, unremarkable in itself bar the name.
I believe a lot of churches in the UK, especially older ones might boast such, our church is 19th century I believe.
And even by those who'd not know a game of D&D if you hit them over the head with it it was always pronounced to rhyme with itch...
I believe a lot of churches in the UK, especially older ones might boast such, our church is 19th century I believe.
And even by those who'd not know a game of D&D if you hit them over the head with it it was always pronounced to rhyme with itch...
Snoweel
First Post
Wycen said:
The Swedish for 'corpse' is 'lik', pronounced halfway between 'lick' and 'leek'.
And can I just point out that the Scandinavian languages are most closely related to Old English.
'Coffin' is 'likkista', literally 'corpse chest'.
And for the record, I'd always pronounced it 'litch' as well, having never thought about the similarity, though now I do believe I've been wrong all this time.
Heh. Now I know what it must feel like for those who thought 'Drow' rhymed with 'throw'.
From: http://www.geocities.com/rgfdfaq/sources.html
Lich, lych
A lychgate is an entrance to a churchyard where a body rests before burial--"lych" means person or dead body (From German "Leiche", meaning "dead body, cadaver, corpse"). The D&D lich is very similar to a character from Taran Wanderer, by Lloyd Alexander, a magician with an unnaturally-extended life who can only die if the item he has stored his soul in is broken (in this case, a bone from his little finger); however, the term "lich" is never used in the book. The origin of both the D&D lich and Alexander's character is probably the Russian folkloric character "Kotshchey the Deathless", also an unnaturally long-lived magician (or demon) who was almost impossible to kill.
Lich, lych
A lychgate is an entrance to a churchyard where a body rests before burial--"lych" means person or dead body (From German "Leiche", meaning "dead body, cadaver, corpse"). The D&D lich is very similar to a character from Taran Wanderer, by Lloyd Alexander, a magician with an unnaturally-extended life who can only die if the item he has stored his soul in is broken (in this case, a bone from his little finger); however, the term "lich" is never used in the book. The origin of both the D&D lich and Alexander's character is probably the Russian folkloric character "Kotshchey the Deathless", also an unnaturally long-lived magician (or demon) who was almost impossible to kill.
JonnyReb
First Post
Ok, I hate to admit it because I don't recall the fellows name, but years ago I worked in a gaming store in Monterey CA and there was a fellow who claimed that he was one of the first DnDers, a personal friend of EGG, now in CA because he was in the Coast Guard.
We were skeptical of his claim, but he was never pushy about it, nor boastful, and as time went by we came to feel he was telling the truth. ( His name *was* in the group credits in the 1st ed PHB for whatever that meant)
Anyhow, his one claim to DnD "fame" was that he invented the Lich. Where or how he came up with the name he never said, but he was running an adventure and needed a powerful magic using undead for the final encounter. He did a little mythological research and came up with the lich.
Supposedly, when they were getting ready to copyright the very first DnD game EGG offered this fellow $25 for the "rights" to "his" Lich, which he accepted.
How true is the story? I've always more or less believed it, mostly because I believed him. I mean, if someone was going to fake being one of the original DnDers, don't you think they'd come up with someting more grandiose then one monster? Besides, if he was telling the truth about that, then all his stories about the early days of DnD and TSR were true, and there were some doosies!
Anyway, that's how I've heard the story, for what it's worth....
We were skeptical of his claim, but he was never pushy about it, nor boastful, and as time went by we came to feel he was telling the truth. ( His name *was* in the group credits in the 1st ed PHB for whatever that meant)
Anyhow, his one claim to DnD "fame" was that he invented the Lich. Where or how he came up with the name he never said, but he was running an adventure and needed a powerful magic using undead for the final encounter. He did a little mythological research and came up with the lich.
Supposedly, when they were getting ready to copyright the very first DnD game EGG offered this fellow $25 for the "rights" to "his" Lich, which he accepted.
How true is the story? I've always more or less believed it, mostly because I believed him. I mean, if someone was going to fake being one of the original DnDers, don't you think they'd come up with someting more grandiose then one monster? Besides, if he was telling the truth about that, then all his stories about the early days of DnD and TSR were true, and there were some doosies!
Anyway, that's how I've heard the story, for what it's worth....
Yair
Community Supporter
The word is "אמת", truth, which when you remove the first letter becomes "מת", dead.Sammael99 said:From what I remember, Golem's actually have the word "life" written in hebraic on their forehead, and since there's only one letter difference between the words "life" and "death", you have to wipe one letter to destroy them.
Still second hand info, though
I am not familiar with the story about the Rabi writing new instructions each day. While it WAS the power of the word that gave power to the golem (an analogy as to how the power of the word of god gave rise to existence in jewish theology), it was not replaced to my knowledge. The rabi simply erased the first letter.
Yair
[Hebrew is my native tongue, but I'm not sure about the actual story. Seeing the hebrew in the post above would require you to install hebrew fonts
]
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Sleepy Voiced
First Post
I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned Clark Ashton Smith as a source for liches in D&D. He uses the word as a descriptor for generally mindless animated corpses in several of his stories. I believe EGG has listed Smith as recommended reading in the 1E DMG, but I could be wrong (don't have my copy at hand).
Agreeing with 2late, previously, here's another definition.
lych-gate [lích gàyt] (plural lych-gates) or lich-gate [lích gàyt] (plural lich-gates) n covered gateway into churchyard: a covered gateway into a churchyard. Traditionally, pallbearers would rest the coffin there before carrying it into the church.
[15th century. From Old English lic “body, corpse” + gate .]
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
lych-gate [lích gàyt] (plural lych-gates) or lich-gate [lích gàyt] (plural lich-gates) n covered gateway into churchyard: a covered gateway into a churchyard. Traditionally, pallbearers would rest the coffin there before carrying it into the church.
[15th century. From Old English lic “body, corpse” + gate .]
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Ycore Rixle
First Post
Sleepy Voiced said:
You know, I thought he did too, but I just looked, and Smith isn't there. *shrug*
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