The Lich (Origins)

Well... **ahem** shoulda read the whole thread before replying. Looks like the Clark Ashton Smith angle has already been pretty thoroughly covered. :eek:
 

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Voadam

Legend
Melan said:
Actually, the first appearance of a fantasy "lich" predates Leiber: Thulsa Doom in Howard's Kull stories was suspiciously like one (the following quote is translated back from the Hungarian):
"The man's face was a bare, wax-white deaths head, pale blue flames glowering in his eye sockets.
'Thulsa Doom' - cried Ka-nu."

This was my guess too.

IIRC Kull and his pict buddy uncover the sorcerer who is trying to take over Kull's empire using serpent people dopplegangers to replace Kull. The pict buddy stabs the sorcerer through the ribs with his bronze sword but both are struck motionless by cold and fear as he reveals his skeletal reality, flames burning from within his eyesockets. The sorcerer walks out calmly at that point, unconcerned about the sword through his chest. He boasts about his ancientness, mastery of magics, and promises that even though Kull killed his serpent man double the sorcerer will be back to take over the empire some other way later.
 
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Garnfellow

Explorer
T. Foster said:
I'm fairly certain the D&D lich comes directly from the Gardner Fox story "The Sword of the Sorcerer," part of the collection Kothar - Barbarian Swordsman (Belmont Books, 1969).

DING DING! I think you have nailed it.

It seems clear that most of the weird fiction authors were reading the works of their contemporaries and picking up and reusing some archaic and obscure words. I suspect a thorough survey of the pulps would find plenty more uses of "lich" than the already impressive number of examples cited in this thread.

But Fox's use seems to be the one that comes very close to lich in the D&D sense. A great find!
 

AFGNCAAP

First Post
Garnfellow said:
DING DING! I think you have nailed it.

It seems clear that most of the weird fiction authors were reading the works of their contemporaries and picking up and reusing some archaic and obscure words. I suspect a thorough survey of the pulps would find plenty more uses of "lich" than the already impressive number of examples cited in this thread.

But Fox's use seems to be the one that comes very close to lich in the D&D sense. A great find!

Did Fox's have the phylactery aspect of the lich as well, or is that from another source (Koschei, for example)?
 

T. Foster

First Post
AFGNCAAP said:
Did Fox's have the phylactery aspect of the lich as well, or is that from another source (Koschei, for example)?
The phylactery isn't mentioned in the part of the story I was quoting from yesterday (the character's first appearance) but I didn't re-read the entire story, and the character reappears in a couple later stories as well, so it might be in there somewhere (I don't recall it specifically, though). However, note that the phylactery also isn't mentioned anywhere in the original OD&D Supplement I monster description (quoted by Geoffrey on p. 1 of this thread) -- it's first mentioned in the AD&D MM1 write-up, by which time Gygax may well have been deliberately trying to incorporate additional elements outside of Fox so as to broaden the monster into a more generic/universal "undead sorcerer" type.
 

frankthedm

First Post
TheAuldGrump said:
It was reprinted in an anthology from Whispers as well.
Tales of the Cthulhu mythos also has a reprint.

D. Carson did a nice Illo based on the sticks story.
 

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crazy_cat

Adventurer
DragonLancer said:
I assume that Lich comes from Lichgate, which is the entrance to a churchyard.
I'm pretty sure its the other way round actually. Lich is olde English for body, so the Lichgate became over time the name for the entrance to the graveyard through which the body was carried.
 

Choranzanus

Explorer
Koshchei

I am pretty sure that concept of lich was influenced by Koshchei Bessmertnii, althought it is probably not the actual origin of the concept. The name quite litterally means "Skeleton the Immortal" and he is a very powerful sorcerer, who hides his life in a well hidden and guarded inanimate object.
 


Prince Atom

Explorer
I'm not sure how much of Koschei made it through to the D&D lich, however. Yes, he is an undying skeleton-sorcerer who keeps his "death" in some other thing than his body; but he has problems with women, specifically, he can't help loving them. Quite often a canny woman will use his infatuation to get the better of him and exploit his power for his own ends. GURPS Russia has some interesting info on this old Russian legend, including the observation that it was often Koschei who needed rescuing, not the women. Koschei also features in GURPS Cabal.

A recent Demonomicon article in Dragon was about a demon, Kostchtchie, who shares a similar name but is a demon, not an undead (my wife thought that the name was a total rip-off, but she's hardly unbiased when it comes to Russian folk tales).

I think that the modern concept of Lich has some roots in Koschie, but it's been expanded and made more generic. Vecna certainly has fed back into the idea.

As far as the old pulp weird tales go, perhaps the authors were looking for a more challenging sorcerer for their thewmongers, since Conan et al. were certainly capable of cleaving your run-of-the-mill living sorcerer in twain without even breaking a sweat. But this thing's already dead! It's going to take at least two whacks with your sword.

TWK
 

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