The Magic-Walmart myth

[Raven Crowking]

I think it speaks volumes on whether the term "Magic Walmart" is mostly used as insulting, that people are quick to state "My game doesn't have Magic Walmarts", but nobody ever states their games do have them.

Myself being an exception, I suppose, as I said I have run games with them. Actually, so have several people earlier in this thread.

If the term was without negative connotations and it was as easily understood as RC says, people would have no problem saying they have them in-game.

I don't claim that the term is without negative connotations. I claim that it is easily understood, and that the only real contention anyone is honestly offering is about those connotations.

Further, the argument that something isn't an insult because the user doesn't think so .. um, my grandpa seems to thinks so also; he uses several racial terms most would consider racist, but aren't in his mind (since that's what schoolbooks said in his day). Doesn't make him right. Not trying to make the things equal, but ..

I hope you can see the difference between saying insulting things about people and about game terms. (Actually, I think that a lot of this argument boils down to a very vocal minority being unable to do just that.)


RC

 

[Shadeydm]

Ergo, nothing is really insulting?

Ergo, it is the readers responsibility to consider context prior to declaring something a personal attack.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Ergo, it is the readers responsibility to consider context prior to declaring something a personal attack.

There's waaaaaayyyyy too much reader entitlement going on these days. I blame it on the video-gamey aspect of message boards.



(Just kidding. Shadeydm has the right of it, IMHO.)

 

[Gentlegamer]

I guess the thread subject is now whether "Magic Walmarts" is a "wrongbadterm."

 

[Doug McCrae]

When I tell the players in my groups "there are no Magic-Walmarts" they know exactly what I mean. There is no assumption by the other two DMs in the group that I have crapped upon thier gaming style or upon thier game. I have instead with two simple terms (no magic-walmarts) conveyed the parameters of my game regarding magic item trade. I cannot say no magic shops because there are in fact magic shops.

So you and your group understand the term to mean an actual physical single big shop with a large stock? A literal Magic Wal-Mart. And the term has no negative connotations.

For your group that's a good term, as its meaning is clear to you. But on ENWorld there's no such clear understanding.

You, Ourph and RC I think all mean different things by it:

Shadeydm: Literal magic Wal-Marts, with no negative connotation.
Ourph: Metaphorical magic Wal-Marts, with no negative connotation.
RC: Metaphorical magic Wal-Marts, with a negative connotation.

 

[Numion]

(Actually, I think that a lot of this argument boils down to a very vocal minority being unable to do just that.)

*raises fist* "We're not a minority!"

 

[Raven Crowking]

I guess the thread subject is now whether "Magic Walmarts" is a "wrongbadterm."

Was the subject ever anything else?

 

[Shadeydm]

So you and your group understand the term to mean an actual physical single big shop with a large stock? A literal Magic Wal-Mart. And the term has no negative connotations.

For your group that's a good term, as its meaning is clear to you. But on ENWorld there's no such clear understanding.

You, Ourph and RC I think all mean different things by it:

Shadeydm: Literal magic Wal-Marts, with no negative connotation.
Ourph: Metaphorical magic Wal-Marts, with no negative connotation.
RC: Metaphorical magic Wal-Marts, with a negative connotation.

From my perspective RC has "won"(if such a thing is actually possible) this thread at least 5 different times (a conservative estimate). I do not deny that the term Magic-Walmart can be used in a negative way, clearly it can. I do maintain however that it is not a negative term by default regardless of usage.

 

[Raven Crowking]

For your group that's a good term, as its meaning is clear to you. But on ENWorld there's no such clear understanding.

You, Ourph and RC I think all mean different things by it:

Yet, if any one of us say "No Magic Walmarts", we and our players understand it to mean that there are no literal magic Wal-Marts or metaphorical magic Wal-Marts, and depending upon context and/or tone (in spoken conversation) they can easily determine whether or not there is a negative connotation.

Moreover, the other terms suggested are equally vague. If we started, for example, with some criteria by which we can determine that a term is clear enough for use, we could then apply that criteria and see whether or not "Magic Walmart" is clear. Unfortunately, my request for such clarification has, thus far, fallen on deaf ears.

(Or, perhaps, clarifying how a term can be clear -- apart from claiming that a derogatory term cannot be clear -- includes with it a chance that, when examined, a term might be shown to be clear, making some perhaps reluctant to walk down that road.)

RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

I do maintain however that it is not a negative term by default regarless of usage.

I agree with this as well. I just happen to also agree with Hussar that its predominant usage includes a negative connotation.