The Matrix

[evildmguy]

Okay, I know this has probably been overdiscussed. I apologize for starting it again. I merely wanted to get my thoughts down and see what people think of them.

When I first saw the Matrix movies, I was confused as hell. Having watched them again, I am still confused but not as much.

Here is my theory:

History repeats itself. There have been four cycles of "the One." Each previous one attacked the core, shut down the machines and delayed things until the war started up again. However, this time, the One was in love and chose differently. Further, the One "freed" agent Smith and made him entropy, something that could kill man and machine alike. Rather than face that, the machine helped Neo defeat Smith, so it could remake the matrix and start a new cycle, whatever it was. That's why there is peace at the end.

Having said that, it is still very muddy to me. They get way too philosophical without offering any real answers, which I think a book/movie/tv show should do. I don't need everything spelled out for me but I need a lot more than what they offered.

Does this sound plausible? Is that what others think? If not, what do you think?

Have a good one! Take care!

edg

 

[Rackhir]

Here is my theory:

History repeats itself. There have been four cycles of "the One." Each previous one attacked the core, shut down the machines and delayed things until the war started up again. However, this time, the One was in love and chose differently. Further, the One "freed" agent Smith and made him entropy, something that could kill man and machine alike. Rather than face that, the machine helped Neo defeat Smith, so it could remake the matrix and start a new cycle, whatever it was. That's why there is peace at the end.

Well we know there have been other "The One"s and that they re-founded Zion or at least that's what the Architect told Neo. He could well be lying. I'm not sure what you mean by "Attacked the Core, shut down the machines". The Machine civilization had obviously survived what happened in the past.

I'm not sure your speculation explains Smith, since his "creation" predates Neo's choice at the Core. Also his destruction seems intimately tied into the creation of "The One", which would tend to indicate that something similar should have happened before. But I'm also not entirely clear on what your theory is. Neo certainly wasn't trying to free Smith. However, both Smith and Neo certainly seemed to be aware of the Matrix as a system that could be manipulated rather than as a reality which has fixed laws, which seems to be the case for others.

The end of Revolutions had a substantial amount of overt Christ imagery and thus there was a definite "Dying to redeem Mankind" element to what Neo did, especially in letting himself be "killed" by Smith to destroy him.

Smith is probably the most puzzling element of the Matrix Story. The way the One was handled made sense, but Smith doesn't neatly slot into any explanations I can think of off hand. The Merovingian didn't seem to know anything about him for example.

 

[frankthedm]

The matrix was good while humanity's only hope was an uncomprimised battle against the machines as the Warschowski Brothers presented it in the first movie.

When the sequals were greenlit the Warschowskis had to go through hoops to think up the whys and the wherefors and how to handicap Super-Neo. When the Warschowski siblings wrote the comprimise between man and machine into the story, they removed any right for humanity to continue existing and then denied them the dignity of fighting to the end.

Truly the maxtrix was ruined by its sequals, in the end becoming a suckfest like the "13th floor", Its original rival at the theaters.

 

[buzzard]

I fail to see why you folks are discussing things as if there was more than one movie. There wasn't right?

(having successfully purged two sequels from my mind thereby sparing a great movie a horrible followup)

buzzard

 

[evildmguy]

Okay, I realize I wasn't clear. Let me try and explain.

Well we know there have been other "The One"s and that they re-founded Zion or at least that's what the Architect told Neo. He could well be lying. I'm not sure what you mean by "Attacked the Core, shut down the machines". The Machine civilization had obviously survived what happened in the past.

I think this was part of the cycle. The machines are pushed back but not destroyed. Humans get a chance to free some more from the matrix, as those humans are still trapped in there, before the machines again get enough power and resources to be a problem. I mean, assumably there is more than one core point in the machines setup.

This does mean that it should probably be closer to 8199, than 2199, to allow for five cycles but that's me.

I'm not sure your speculation explains Smith, since his "creation" predates Neo's choice at the Core. Also his destruction seems intimately tied into the creation of "The One", which would tend to indicate that something similar should have happened before. But I'm also not entirely clear on what your theory is. Neo certainly wasn't trying to free Smith. However, both Smith and Neo certainly seemed to be aware of the Matrix as a system that could be manipulated rather than as a reality which has fixed laws, which seems to be the case for others.

And some good points. I am not arguing with your points but speaking out loud as to what I think to try and figure it out for myself.

Smith has become something that frightens both the computer and the humans. He is attacking both trying to wipe out both. Thus my idea of Entropy for him, although he was called Death in the movies.

Whatever Smith became, he did so when Neo "destroyed" him at the end of the first movie. Assumably there are variations each time. My thought is that Smith became a rogue program but with additional "powers" or abilities. However, his thinking led him to decide that he was sick of the war and wanted it over, hence trying to get rid of both sides.

The end of Revolutions had a substantial amount of overt Christ imagery and thus there was a definite "Dying to redeem Mankind" element to what Neo did, especially in letting himself be "killed" by Smith to destroy him.

Yeah, that part was obvious. However, I do think it fit the story another way. Someone had to die for Neo to get to the city and that was Trinity. Because she died, Neo didn't want to live so he did what he did as his last act and then died from it or let himself die because he didn't want to live.

However, lots of martyr images there, I agree.

Smith is probably the most puzzling element of the Matrix Story. The way the One was handled made sense, but Smith doesn't neatly slot into any explanations I can think of off hand. The Merovingian didn't seem to know anything about him for example.

Hmm. Again, good points.

It could be that Smith only recently went rogue and the Merovingian didn't have time to figure him out. I don't know.

So, is it your theory that the One exists to free the humans until the machines come back or the cycle renews?? And that's why it is tough to figure out Smith? I keep wondering if the movies are trying to show the anamoly and why this cycle is different from the others. Granted, we only have five, so who knows?

Thanks for the reply! Good ideas! I hope mine were a bit more clear but if not, I blame my cold!

Have a good one! Take care!

edg

 

[evildmguy]

I fail to see why you folks are discussing things as if there was more than one movie. There wasn't right?

(having successfully purged two sequels from my mind thereby sparing a great movie a horrible followup)

buzzard

LOL!

That's funny! And after my first viewing of them, I agreed.

Whether I am less forgiving as I age or what, some of the "other movies" made more sense watching them again. However, not ALL of it did and so that's why I am posting here, to type about what happened.

Have a good one! Take care!

edg

 

[Rackhir]

LOL!

That's funny! And after my first viewing of them, I agreed.

Whether I am less forgiving as I age or what, some of the "other movies" made more sense watching them again. However, not ALL of it did and so that's why I am posting here, to type about what happened.

Have a good one! Take care!

edg

I think the sequels attract an unwarented amount of criticisim. Yes they had flaws and were far from perfect movies, but they in no way come close the the levels of awfulness the apocryphal second Highlander movie would have possessed, had such a horror ever been made. Which the whole "there were no matrix sequels" is a cheap knock off of.

 

[evildmguy]

I think the sequels attract an unwarented amount of criticisim. Yes they had flaws and were far from perfect movies, but they in no way come close the the levels of awfulness the apocryphal second Highlander movie would have possessed, had such a horror ever been made. Which the whole "there were no matrix sequels" is a cheap knock off of.

Hmm. Not sure of that only because they had a lot to live up to and the brothers obviously had no other story so had to make it up. Again, not terrible but certainly not up to the hype, which is not the brother's fault.

As for Highlander, I think they should have followed their own quote. "There can be only one."

Have a good one! Take care!

edg

 

[buzzard]

I think the sequels attract an unwarented amount of criticisim. Yes they had flaws and were far from perfect movies, but they in no way come close the the levels of awfulness the apocryphal second Highlander movie would have possessed, had such a horror ever been made. Which the whole "there were no matrix sequels" is a cheap knock off of.

While I may well be about as much of a Highlander fanatic as there is (seen it several hundred times, though I'm not sure I still have it memorized), I will easily admit that as a movie it in no way compares quality wise with The Matrix. As such, the drop off from The Matrix to its sequels is pretty darned sharp. Granted probably not quite as bad as the fall to the abomination that was Highlander 2, but still it was a big fall from a lofty place to reach Reloaded.

buzzard

 

[Rackhir]

I think this was part of the cycle. The machines are pushed back but not destroyed. Humans get a chance to free some more from the matrix, as those humans are still trapped in there, before the machines again get enough power and resources to be a problem. I mean, assumably there is more than one core point in the machines setup.

I seriously doubt that the machines were pushed back or even significantly inconvenienced by any of the other cycles. The number of sentinels and the scale of the machine cities shown in the third movie make it pretty clear that wiping out the free humans was simply a matter of chosing to do so.

Whatever Smith became, he did so when Neo "destroyed" him at the end of the first movie. Assumably there are variations each time. My thought is that Smith became a rogue program but with additional "powers" or abilities. However, his thinking led him to decide that he was sick of the war and wanted it over, hence trying to get rid of both sides.

It could be that Smith only recently went rogue and the Merovingian didn't have time to figure him out. I don't know.

So, is it your theory that the One exists to free the humans until the machines come back or the cycle renews?? And that's why it is tough to figure out Smith? I keep wondering if the movies are trying to show the anamoly and why this cycle is different from the others. Granted, we only have five, so who knows?

Well, if I understand what they were telling us, "The One" arising indicates that the matrix is reaching a crisis point and will have to be rebooted. There was a lot of vague talk about The One being an attempt to balance the equation and some other double talk that didn't make a great deal of sense. Though they made it clear that the free humans were wiped out when The One arose, however they didn't really make it clear why. Presumably, they had developed enough to be an annoyance to the machines or alternatively, the machines would have to accept a "lower level of existence" until the "Crops" had recovered to a sufficient level (assuming that "rebooting" the matrix involves creating new "crops") and didn't want "free range" humans causing trouble during that time.

Smith becoming what he did is quite clearly linked to what Neo did to him. No argument there. However his initial destruction seemed like a logical extension of Neo finally awakening to being The One. What Neo did to him was essentially what the agents did to people they "posessed".

The big brawl with Neo and Smith in the second movie had already happened when they went to the Merovingian for the first time. So Smith had already infected a substantial number of people/programs/agents. The Merovingian seemed very much plugged into the "program" underground since he seemed to know all about the oracle and was holding the Keymaker. Also he clearly mentioned being around for several cycles. So it seems odd that he would have no idea about Smith's existance or the threat he posed. I don't think he showed any awareness about Smith when he showed up in the 3rd movie either.