The mechanics of non-stop action

[der_kluge]

As many of you know, I often pontificate the deeper underlying philosophies behind game design. Most of these I turn into thought-provoking, intellectual threads on here, which are then promptly and sumarily ignored. That said, I have another one.


I've been doing some thinking recently on the idea of finite spell-casting. In D&D, and indeed pretty much every system I've ever played, spell-casting is a finite resources. Unless a party is made up of rogues and fighters exclusively, there comes a point where the party will need to abandon their excursion into a dungeon foray and return once the cleric or wizard has more spells. Very successful parties are the ones who manage these resources wisely, and don't "blow the wad" so to speak too early in a dungeon, and risk not having crucial spells for a larger encounter.

But what would a system look like if a wizard or cleric could just continue to cast spells indefinitely without repurcussion just as a rogue could pick locks, or a fighter swing an axe? What would such a system look like? Does any such system exist which proposes such a thing? How would you handle damage? If a cleric could just continually cast healing magic, does damage lose it's meaning? Do you remove healing magic, and if so, what role do clerics play?

Such a thing, I feel, would greatly change the dynamic of the game. In some sense, the existing style plays well towards the idea that people gather for an evening's entertainment, use up their resources, retreat back, and then start again renewed for next week's game. What would the game be like if retreating back to recoup resources wasn't a necessity?

 

[Umbran]

But what would a system look like if a wizard or cleric could just continue to cast spells indefinitely without repurcussion just as a rogue could pick locks, or a fighter swing an axe? What would such a system look like? Does any such system exist which proposes such a thing? How would you handle damage? If a cleric could just continually cast healing magic, does damage lose it's meaning? Do you remove healing magic, and if so, what role do clerics play?

A few systems come close - Shadowrun and White Wolf's Mage games come to mind. In both cases, spellcasting is not strictly finite. There may or may not be repercussions, depending on the caster's luck and skill.

In terms of design, I don't think you really want magic to be completely infinite, though, for a couple of reasons:

1)Managing finite resources is a part of the game play. If resources cease to be finite, then there's no tactics behind when to use them and when to hold back. You always let loose with your most powerful mojo, over and over, with no repercussions. That's kinda boring.

2)Unless you're happy with the idea of having your rogues and fighters overshadowed, you'd have to throttle back the power of magic. Right now in 3.5e, a single Fireball does a lot more damage than a normal sword thrust. The balance is that the fighter can swing all day, while the mage has only a couple fireballs. If you have infinite fireballs, who needs swords?

 

[Percivellian]

My gaming compatriots and myself often fantasize about systems with these kinds of changes to magic. The 'retreat and regroup' aspect of the game as it is just tends to be a hazard of the system rather than something players look forward to. We tend to gloss over it frequently, and likely if it wasn't necessary, we would do it some form any way, because a lot of great play comes during those times.

The first thought that jumps to my mind is that if magic were as unlimited as a fighter's attacks, you could make it work by increasing casting times. Magic is effective, and you can draw on it whenever you need, but it's going to take some time to get working, so you have to choose your actions carefully, and protect your spellcasters in the heat of a combat.

I certainly don't have the brainpower to even imagine I can engineer these kinds of changes into a balanced system, but it's a nice thought about a change in flavour.

EDIT: Though, one of our regular players does run Mage games every so often. Doesn't that system have an unlimited magic system of a sort?

 

[Herobizkit]

One concept you could implement might be one similar to the system found in Blue Rose. They can cast magic on a near infinitel level so long as they make their fatigue checks. It only takes a few minutes to an hour to recover from fatigue, depending on how fatigued the character is.

Or, go the other route... give them a very narrow spell list and make the mechanic similar to superpowers...

 

[Herobizkit]

The first thought that jumps to my mind is that if magic were as unlimited as a fighter's attacks, you could make it work by increasing casting times. Magic is effective, and you can draw on it whenever you need, but it's going to take some time to get working, so you have to choose your actions carefully, and protect your spellcasters in the heat of a combat.

The GURPS system does something similar to this. Their combat turns are played out per second rather than every six seconds. Mages can cast strong spells, but they need time to 'juice them up'... for example, a generic fire bolt can be thrown each round at 1d6 damage, oftentimes for free (assuming the use of mana points and that, with a high enough skill, the character reduces the mana cost to zero); if the character wishes, s/he can hold the spell and gather more mana, adding another d6 to their damage, up to 3d6 (GURPS has Health score=HP, and averages 10 HP for a character).

Now, I don't see how you could translate this to the hard and fast combat system in D&D. I mean, mages are the blasters of the base classes, and they're expected to dish out gobs of damage for putting up with crappy weapons, no defense and a d4 for HD. By futher handicapping their casting times... well, you see where I'm going.

 

[Steverooo]

I proposed a system like this, once...

In order for it to work, the first thing you have to do is to make spells as damaging as a Fighter's/Rogue's weapons. Next, you need to give the casters a "miss chance" similar to BAB. I did this by giving a caster a 50% chance to cast any spell, upon first learning it. The chance increased 5%/level, thereafter.

Thus, a Wizard with Magic Missile, Cantrips, and Shield would have a 50% chance to get any of them off, and could do 1D4+1, if they did.

Now obviously, many of D&D's spells would have to be tossed out, or toned down, and Wizards would need to get multiple attacks/round, at higher levels, just like Fighters. The magic system would have to be totally re-written... but it could be done, and made to work.

 

[Zappo]

Warlocks from Complete Arcane work pretty much like that.

 

[Henrix]

In HeroQuest (the Gloranthan RPG, successor to RuneQuest, not the boardgame) there is no limit to using magic. You cast spells (or whatever) all the time, with no penalties.
But then, the system is rather special....

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Sounds a bit like the magic system that was implemented in Sovereign Stone d20, doesn't it?

 

[Verequus]

I think, that this sounds more like Elements of Magic - Mythic Earth: http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=5531& Similar to Blue Rose you can keep on casting, but if you fail a spellcasting check too badly, you gain cumulative -1 penalty, which goes away after a good period of rest.