The misbegotten waif thread a/k/a The Fray V2

[GandalfMithrandir]

oh dear oh dear oh dear, I worry for our group

 

[Rhun]

Ryan, in a 4E game, if a Fighter and a Rogue of the same level and optimal build engage in combat with each other, who will win?

I'm just curious, because from my perspective (as a grognard, of course), there is no way a Rogue should be able to defeat a Fighter in straight up combat. However, my impression of 4E is that is is quite possible the Rogue would win in the fight.

 

[renau1g]

Hmmm...well, if the rogue can regularly generate combat advantage he'd likely win (same as getting his backstab in prior editions), but without that advantage he's using smaller weapons (usually dagger) vs a superior hp/defenses so their damage could likely be relatively similar. A fighter's survivability would likely give him the edge IMO. Rogue probably has 16 AC at level 1, Fighter has 17-20 (whether using a shield or not).

One huge advantage is that once the Rogue's next to him, he's not going anywhere...

An very-optimized Fighter like Beowulf (Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible) would probably wipe the floor with a rogue...once he got his hands on him.

 

[renau1g]

oh dear oh dear oh dear, I worry for our group

So true...they did say ""Get'em boys! Get'em good!"" so Todarg took that as hostile

 

[Rhun]

You are definitely the 4E expert around these parts!

 

[Walking Dad]

Sounds a fair analysis. But I would add something. When it come to skills, 3e give a more flexible way to handle skill and give a way to give some personality to your character.

4e have simplified the skill system to a point where skill doesn't define much your character as 3e did. As renau1g told, there is nothing bad to it. But I always had a preference on point system, and I must tell my favorite character on EnWorld up to now was a Rinaldo the Merchant (a 3rd edition Rogue), which allowed me to give more sense to his Merchant background than I was able to do it with Leonard Doherty (a 4th edition Bard)

We just realized in HM Carrion Crown game how useless un-optimized Diplomacy is in Pathfinder. And 3.5 had Use Rope. I prefer the 4e solution for fantasy games.

 

[Rhun]

We just realized in HM Carrion Crown game how useless un-optimized Diplomacy is in Pathfinder. And 3.5 had Use Rope. I prefer the 4e solution for fantasy games.

I do admit that I think Use Rope was sort of a silly skill.

 

[renau1g]

2e had some silly non-weapon proficencies, 4e has the Linguist feat. There's lots of crappy options in every edition

 

[Velmont]

It is not in the skill list I see a flaw, but the fact that in 4e edition you are either train or not in a skill. You can use some of your precious feat to play with it, but you have less flexibility on your skill modifier than the 3e.

For the skill list, I also thought, there was some skill that was mostly useless or that should be regroup. I liked what Mutant and Mastermind did.

I would have preferred something in between the two edition I think.

 

[Rhun]

2e had some silly non-weapon proficencies, 4e has the Linguist feat. There's lots of crappy options in every edition

In pretty much every game!