The Monastic - A monk-like cleric

[Sir Brennen]

This is sort of a group-think experiment...

Recently I started playing the MMORPG Guild Wars, and something struck me as a potentially interesting variant for D&D. In GW, monks are basically the healers of the party, and are actually more like standard D&D clerics than monks, except in appearance.

But what if DnD clerics were monks? If you were to create a hybrid class, so that you would essentially have a monk that cast cleric spells, what features would you keep and which ones would you drop? As a sort of baseline, I'm assuming replacing the armor and shield proficiences of the cleric with the monk AC Bonus class feature, and having the monk weapon list.

But where from there? Which class features of the monk would you add? Are there any features of the cleric you would drop (one or both domains, Turn Undead, spontaneous casting)?

How about if you were to do the same thing for a monkish paladin? How would you mix/balance features?

Looking forward to everyone's ideas.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I haven't played Guild Wars - do the monks fight unarmed as in D&D? Is that any part of what you would like the hybrid class to be able to do? And if they do fight unarmed, are they better at that than at fighting with weapons (i.e., also as in D&D) - in other words, would you be wanting that kind of weighting of the abilities?

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Can you adapt the Shungenja from OA? I think that might be the one I'm thinking of...

 

[Sir Brennen]

I haven't played Guild Wars - do the monks fight unarmed as in D&D? Is that any part of what you would like the hybrid class to be able to do? And if they do fight unarmed, are they better at that than at fighting with weapons (i.e., also as in D&D) - in other words, would you be wanting that kind of weighting of the abilities?

In Guild Wars, the Monk typically tries to stay at the edge of combat and cast ranged healing spells on the warriors, but when they do get into melee, they usually rely on a staff. Monks have three areas that they can focus in or balance between (even changing focus between adventures.) These are Healing, Protection or Smiting. So you could have a Smiting monk who doesn't memorize any healing spells.

However, I'm not really looking to replicate the GW monk - it was just a jumping off point for this idea. Also, in GW, almost every character is dual-classed, making it even harder to model exactly. You could have a monk with Necromancer as a secondary class, for instance.

Overall, I'm thinking the hybrid DnD class should be about as martial as the cleric is currently, but using archetypical monk fighting styles (unarmed, or monk weapons.) It's just, how would you make a balance blend of the two classes?

Can you adapt the Shungenja from OA? I think that might be the one I'm thinking of...

The Shugenja class, IIRC, is primarily a spellcaster with poor BAB, so not quite what I'm envisioning.

Maybe there are some PrC's favoring Monk/Clerics that might serve as some good examples?

 

[szilard]

Start with the Monk.

Drop:

bonus feats
unarmored feat bonus
flurry of blows
slow fall
good reflex save
wholeness of body
abundant step
tongue of the sun and moon
empty body

Add:

Cleric spellcasting (no domains) - you might want to add some spells like expeditious retreat, feather fall, and swift etherealness to their list. ::shrug::
Undead Turning
Spontaneous Healing - but this costs a use of turning in addition to the spell slot.


Does that seem roughly balanced - or too powerful?

-Stuart

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Take favored soul.

—One spell known per level must be a Conjuration (healing) spell.
—Weapon Focus and Specialization (choose from monk weapon list)

That might be all you need to do really, but you could remove the energy resistances and wings and pull in some abilities from the monk class. Maybe replace the energy resistances with Reach Spell feat that scales range as the class improves in level for Conjuration (healing) spells. And Sudden Widen Spell and Sudden Enlarge Spell for Conjuration (healing) spells for the higher level energy resistances...

 

[XCorvis]

I'd lean more towards replacing some of the monk abilities with limited spellcasting. Drop Slow Fall, Fast Movement, Abundant Step and similar things, and give them a reduced spell list that involves a lot of physical things. No Flame Strikes, but bull's strength, expeditious retreat, jump, etc. I think you could keep domains, but I'm trying to think of a way to combine Turn Undead with Stunning Fist. Maybe they can't turn per say, but can use positive energy to make their melee attacks hurt undead more... Turns out a lot like the sacred fist PrC from Complete Divine.

Another way to do it might be to give the monk a better healing power, like something closer to lay on hands, and then re-wrap the class in religious color text. Rename abilities to better reflect the religious theme, add an atonement requirement if they break alignment, etc... Also, drop the lawful alignment restriction.

 

[starwed]

Although this article seems to be about creating a psionic monk, (something I've tried myself), the linked to file at the bottom of the page also includes a divine monk type class called the Friar. Maybe look at that to see if you like it?

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

The Shugenja class, IIRC, is primarily a spellcaster with poor BAB, so not quite what I'm envisioning.

Ah, yo're right I see, looking at my books. However, the OA Shaman has unarmed strike, avg BAB, and full spellcasting, IIRC. It might work as a starting point...

 

[Sir Brennen]

The Monastic

Okay, I've been fiddling with this idea the past week and have like a 6 page Word doc going. Here's the summary version of the cleric variant I'm calling The Monastic. I'll post the changes to Domains next.

First, a list of the added "Special" features for the Monastic class.

Level - Special
1st - Energy Channeling, Turn or Rebuke Undead, Flurry of Blows
2nd - Slow Fall
3rd - Domain Techniques
4th - Channeled strike (magic)
6th - Fast Movement
10th - Bonus Feat
16th - Bonus Feat

Alignment: As Cleric
Hit Dice: d8
Class Skills & Points: TBD
BAB: As Cleric
Good Saves:Ref and Will

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Prof.: As Monk
AC Bonus: As Monk
Aura: As Cleric
Spells: Including rules for domains, spontaneous casting and spells with alignment descriptors - As Cleric.
Bonus Languages: As Cleric

Turn or Rebuke Undead: Several changes. Turn Attempts per day are now referred to as Energy Channeling. Energy Channeling has various techniques that allow it to be used in different ways. Turn or Rebuke Undead is one such technique. IMC, Turn/Rebuke Undead uses a direct-damage variant rather than causing undead to flee or be destroyed.

Other techniques are typically Swift (free-once-per-round-on-your-turn) actions, with their effects lasting (1 + Wis Bonus) rounds. Domains also have an associated Energy Channeling technique which the monastic will have access to, in addition to the normal granted powers. Other techniques are known either as part of the core class or through feats.

Instead of 3 + Cha bonus Energy Channelings gained at 1st level, one Energy Channeling per-day use is gained at 1st, 2nd and 4th levels. Bonus uses due to high Cha are gained at every odd level beginning at first.

Unarmed Strike: Bonus Feat as Monk. Note this means the monastic can deliver touch spells with his unarmed attacks. Unarmed Damage is as follows:
● Levels 1-7: 1d6
● Levels 8-15: 1d8
● Levels 16-20: 1d10

Flurry of Blows: For the Monastic, this is an Energy Channeling technique, lasting only a few rounds. Attack Bonus is same as Monk. The extra attack for Greater Flurry is not received at 11th level. All monastics know this technique at first level.

Slow Fall: A technique which can be activated as an immediate action, available to all monastics starting at 2nd level. The amount of distance reduced is less than the monk's ability.

Ki Strike: A technique gained at 4th level which functions similar to the Greater Magic Weapon spell, and is NKA Channeled Strike. Other versions exist based on domain selection.

Fast Movement: Also a technique requiring Energy Channeling to activate, the monastic acquires this ability at 6th level and gains +10 ft. to movement per 5 caster levels.

Bonus Feats: A choice of feats including most Divine feats (ones which require Turn Undead in varioius WotC supplements), monk-related feats and a few which enhance specific Domain techniques.