The New 4th Edition God-Killing Rules

[JackSmithIV]

OTOH, the description by the OP of the 4E god-slaying rules makes me think, "Holy... ____.... When can I start?"

Yeah, that's kinda what I felt, and my goal was to see if I could find someone as excited as me. You should read the adventure hooks themselves, too, they're really very good.

Which leads me to my next question, which I'll pose to Mr. Logan Bonner, if he's still watching. I'm curious as to whether this will stay the model for dieties in the future. Will two columns of the sort be included in future supplements containing gods? Also, what about creatures such as primordials. Can't exactly go back in time and rewrite Rorn, but isn't it to be assumed that the primordials went to war with the gods? I just don't see how primordials can really match up if they're at all like Rorn.

Once again, smash up job!

 

[Tiny Little Raven]

What about the ramifications of deicide? If the GM is running a game where the players on plane hopping adding to list of slain deities, what happens when all the gods are dead? Granted it wouldn't be easy topull of such a feat, but it should at least get mentions somewhere.

 

[Mirtek]

Can't exactly go back in time and rewrite Rorn,

Can't they? I mean, 1e basically did exactly this (well, at least sort of). At first archfiends were introduced in a MM and when the MotP was released on a later date and contained some general deity traits it also included a sentence about the all archfiends being treated as lesser deities and that the benefits presented there should be retroactively applied to their write up in the MM.

 

[Logan_Bonner]

Which leads me to my next question, which I'll pose to Mr. Logan Bonner, if he's still watching. I'm curious as to whether this will stay the model for dieties in the future. Will two columns of the sort be included in future supplements containing gods? Also, what about creatures such as primordials. Can't exactly go back in time and rewrite Rorn, but isn't it to be assumed that the primordials went to war with the gods? I just don't see how primordials can really match up if they're at all like Rorn.

Deities will have the same traits outlined in the sidebar, and there should be suggestions for how to kill them as well.

The primordials are supposed to provide major fights, but aren't on quite the same power level as the gods. It might be that we'll want to get a little crazier with future primordials—Rorn is pretty straightforward. But Tiamat was actually designed a little before Rorn, and we decided not to make the primordials too much like the deities.

The surviving deities are also the best and brightest of the bunch. Plenty of dead deities were less survivable. We consciously didn't use the "discorporation" ability on the primordials, because they're more vulnerable, and easier to kill by standard means.

 

[crash_beedo]

Wow. Cool thread, and its got me thinking Manual of the Planes will have equal high level greatness. Its going to be a long wait to Xmas waiting for a copy of Draconomicon and MotP...

(Little too close to the holidays for me to just rush out and spring for them when I *know* relatives or the wifey will comply...)

 

[doctorhook]

Deities will have the same traits outlined in the sidebar, and there should be suggestions for how to kill them as well.

The primordials are supposed to provide major fights, but aren't on quite the same power level as the gods. It might be that we'll want to get a little crazier with future primordials—Rorn is pretty straightforward. But Tiamat was actually designed a little before Rorn, and we decided not to make the primordials too much like the deities.

The surviving deities are also the best and brightest of the bunch. Plenty of dead deities were less survivable. We consciously didn't use the "discorporation" ability on the primordials, because they're more vulnerable, and easier to kill by standard means.

Very interesting...

So, does this mean we can expect some sort of 4E "Deities & Demigods" or "Faiths & Pantheons" at some point, or will it be more common for deity stats to appear in thematically-/portfolio-related supplements? (For example, since Tiamat appears in Draconomicon I, perhaps Vecna appears in Open Grave?)

Also, given the "Don't create monsters that hardly anyone will ever fight" approach in 4E, can we expect to see Good or Lawful Good deities get stat'ed up?

Finally, what about Realms- (and more broadly, setting-) specific deities?

Thanks for all the scoops you have already given us, and will soon coyly avoid trying to give us, Logan!

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Full blown deity stats are a waste of page space IMO (and I really do adore Erik Mona's comments on deity stat blocks after he had to write a ton of them for 3.x FR's Faiths&Pantheons) because they set as standard the idea of using such beings as even bigger monsters, rather than as anything more fantastic and removed from the mundane world of human vs orc, etc.

Then ignore the stats. Some people want them, and it's easier to say "gods can't be killed with swords in my campaign" than it is to create deity stats off the cuff.

This is about as much of a problem as the lack of the Great Wheel in the DMG is a problem. Solution: minor edits.

 

[TwinBahamut]

This sounds like a very good system... I approve.

I probably won't get the Draconomicon, but I am really looking forward to seeing a god's statblock in some future book.

 

[Logan_Bonner]

So, does this mean we can expect some sort of 4E "Deities & Demigods" or "Faiths & Pantheons" at some point, or will it be more common for deity stats to appear in thematically-/portfolio-related supplements? (For example, since Tiamat appears in Draconomicon I, perhaps Vecna appears in Open Grave?)

You'll definitely see deities in thematic supplements. Don't know whether there will be a Deities & Demigods or not.

Also, given the "Don't create monsters that hardly anyone will ever fight" approach in 4E, can we expect to see Good or Lawful Good deities get stat'ed up?

They're certainly less likely to be statted up as adversaries, but I wouldn't rule it out. There also might be Good or Lawful Good deities who get significant write-ups as patrons or appear in other, non-monster, forms.

Finally, what about Realms- (and more broadly, setting-) specific deities?

I'm guessing those would appear on Insider. Unless a deity is hugely important to a setting, it's unlikely to appear in a future campaign guide.

 

[doctorhook]

All I have to say is, "You rock, Mr Bonner!"