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The New D&D Book Is 'The Explorer's Guide to [Critical Role's] Wildemount!' By Matt Mercer
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7895867" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>If you read my second paragraph in the quote, I start by saying "The other games you listed". That was meant to include 3.5, Rolemaster and Shadowrun 4e. I would also include Pathfinder as it is essentially 3.5. </p><p></p><p>I also acknowledged that those games are even more complex, saying that they were on the extreme end of complexity. High < Extreme. </p><p></p><p>And, I can say with some confidence, that Shadowrun 4e is a pretty high benchmark. I had a friend who wanted to start a play by post game of that system. So, I essentially had to self teach myself to create a character with the software they gave me. It took two weeks, I still did not make a good character, and I was simply overwhelmed. And I am an experienced gamer who generally has little trouble picking up new games. </p><p></p><p></p><p>So, my post is not nonsensical, unless you think complexity is a binary state. There are games that are more complex and less complex. DnD 5e falls on the higher end. It just does, there are entire genres of games that are less complex than 5e. As someone who has had to bring in new players pretty much every year, it is a difficult transition every time. I agree with the drip method of rules teaching, but if there are mitigating circumstances, it just highlights how hard it is to teach the game. </p><p></p><p>The guy decided to play a druid, because he wanted magic and support but no religion. So I listed Hill Dwarf, Wood Elf or Human as his best choices for race. He wanted to know which was better, so I had to explain how the dwarf would increase his health and make him resistant to poison (explain what resistance is) while the elf would be harder to hit and give him more skills (what are skills, what do they do) and the human would be slightly weaker, but could give him a feat (what are feats, what do they do). What is proficiency, when do you add it, which wisdom number do you add, what do all these cantrips do, which is the best choice to take for a character who fights at range, that one sounds cool can I do this with it, what is preparing spells, how do spell slots work, what is AC how do I calculate it. </p><p></p><p>I had two hours to help him learn the game and build a character he could play at a newbie DMs table. A DM I have never and will never meet, running for a table of eight. </p><p></p><p>And, when I talked to my sister about how the session went, the first thing she asked me is that they got into an argument, mostly a player and the guy I helped, over the fact that the player declared you do not get an attack bonus when you use spells. She asked if that was true, and the honest answer is, "sort of" because you only get an attack bonus with some spells, others use saves, and still others just work without either a save or an attack bonus (magic missile) but you do not get damage bonuses to the spells, unless a specific ability says you do. </p><p></p><p></p><p>DnD 5e is by no means a "simple game". It is simple for DnD standards, just like the collected works of Jim Butcher are simple in terms of "literature" when compared to far more complex behemoths like Tolstoy, but they are not "simple books" either. These things exist in degrees.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7895867, member: 6801228"] If you read my second paragraph in the quote, I start by saying "The other games you listed". That was meant to include 3.5, Rolemaster and Shadowrun 4e. I would also include Pathfinder as it is essentially 3.5. I also acknowledged that those games are even more complex, saying that they were on the extreme end of complexity. High < Extreme. And, I can say with some confidence, that Shadowrun 4e is a pretty high benchmark. I had a friend who wanted to start a play by post game of that system. So, I essentially had to self teach myself to create a character with the software they gave me. It took two weeks, I still did not make a good character, and I was simply overwhelmed. And I am an experienced gamer who generally has little trouble picking up new games. So, my post is not nonsensical, unless you think complexity is a binary state. There are games that are more complex and less complex. DnD 5e falls on the higher end. It just does, there are entire genres of games that are less complex than 5e. As someone who has had to bring in new players pretty much every year, it is a difficult transition every time. I agree with the drip method of rules teaching, but if there are mitigating circumstances, it just highlights how hard it is to teach the game. The guy decided to play a druid, because he wanted magic and support but no religion. So I listed Hill Dwarf, Wood Elf or Human as his best choices for race. He wanted to know which was better, so I had to explain how the dwarf would increase his health and make him resistant to poison (explain what resistance is) while the elf would be harder to hit and give him more skills (what are skills, what do they do) and the human would be slightly weaker, but could give him a feat (what are feats, what do they do). What is proficiency, when do you add it, which wisdom number do you add, what do all these cantrips do, which is the best choice to take for a character who fights at range, that one sounds cool can I do this with it, what is preparing spells, how do spell slots work, what is AC how do I calculate it. I had two hours to help him learn the game and build a character he could play at a newbie DMs table. A DM I have never and will never meet, running for a table of eight. And, when I talked to my sister about how the session went, the first thing she asked me is that they got into an argument, mostly a player and the guy I helped, over the fact that the player declared you do not get an attack bonus when you use spells. She asked if that was true, and the honest answer is, "sort of" because you only get an attack bonus with some spells, others use saves, and still others just work without either a save or an attack bonus (magic missile) but you do not get damage bonuses to the spells, unless a specific ability says you do. DnD 5e is by no means a "simple game". It is simple for DnD standards, just like the collected works of Jim Butcher are simple in terms of "literature" when compared to far more complex behemoths like Tolstoy, but they are not "simple books" either. These things exist in degrees. [/QUOTE]
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The New D&D Book Is 'The Explorer's Guide to [Critical Role's] Wildemount!' By Matt Mercer
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