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Message: <blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 2285893" data-attributes="member: 463">I can't believe I'm going to answer this question...I was just saying that Limited Wish - 1hp is balanced against Wish - 1 hp x Caster Level.  Nothing about balancing of the CR of the Permanent Damage Monster, that's nothing to do with me.  I agree with the view that the CR of the PDM isn't really balanceable in terms of the default assumption that it's some random encounter down a dungeon meant to be killed; it's the kind of creature that most PCs would never voluntarily face so it's more of a GM's tool for scaring PCs.  The assigned CR can really only represent a reasonable XP reward for defeating it, not an estimate of its Challenge, because even if it loses it can make the PCs regret fighting it - and that is the notion people appear to object to.  In 1e you could say the same about level-draining undead.BTW for the second time, I am not involved in designing any of U_K's Immortals Handbook, it's his own work and I probably know less about it than half the people on this thread.  The original Worship Points System was developed by me ca 1990 but U_K's version has had pretty much no input from me for years.  And I haven't created a deity-level monster for 10 years either.</blockquote>