The new Use Magic Device: Good or bad?

[Deset Gled]

Fairly recently, I was shown that in 3.5, Use Magic Device is avaliable to all classes as a cross-class skill. At first, this seemed like something that I didn't like, but could learn to live with. The group that I play with has not yet noticed this, either, so I can't say I've experienced anything bad from it personally. The more I think about it, though, the more problems I see.

From a power analysis perspective, UMD seems outrageous. Since there are spells that help add to just about every skill, it is by far the most powerful skill in the game. In combat, it allows any character to overcome the limits of restricted items, allows anyone to use offensive spells, allows anyone to heal up afterwards, and allows anyone to buff themselves. Arcane casters can now cast divine spells, and vice versa.

On this same bent, UMD as a cross class skill just seems wrong. It should not be possible for all people to mimic the class abilities of any other class just by spending skill points and money. Aside from power problems, it will stop the party from working as a group (since all warriors can buff themselves and heal themselves), and makes a character more defined by the goods they own (since they can use any item) than by their class.

Now don't get me wrong, I love UMD as an exclusive skill. It's excellent as a class ability for bards and rogues, as it gives them power where they otherwise lacked and made them unique. But for anyone to be able to get it as a cross class skill just plain seems like too little sacrifice for too much gain (especially for paladins, clerics, and sorcerers, who would already have decent charisma).

It possible though, that I am overreacting to something that's not really all that broken. What do all you people think? Has anyone out there seen this abused? Does anyone else see ethical issues with it?

 

[Crothian]

No, I agree totally. Especially if the person can get an item that increases the skill, it can be pretty silly. I've never seen it abused in my game, but I have seen it abused on the boards.

 

[BSF]

I really haven't seen much problem with it, nor do I anticipate it ever becoming a problem. It would be possible for a character to put a lot of effort into maxing it out, but those are skill points they are giving up from other skills.

In the games I run, that might make a huge difference. My players are starting to appreciate the value of Knowledge skills. Heck, I have more characters focusing on craft skills than on UMD. Kind of weird since I eliminated Cross-class skills entirely. Of course, my goal in eliminating cross-class skills was to have the character defined by ... character more than class. If you want to play a sharp, multilingual fighter, I see no reason to discourage that just because "fighters don't learn to speak languages". If you want to have a wacky tumbling sorceror, go for it! I would love to hear his story and see him in action. Nobody in my group has decided that they have a cool concept for a UMD based character.

 

[Spatula]

I don't see it as a problem, given how high the UMD skill check DCs are. A 9th level character would have, at most, 6 ranks, plus their CHA mod, which isn't going to get you very far. Best case (or worst, depending on your perspective) is a paladin or sorcerer, possibly with the feat that gives you +2 to UMD checks - but then both classes are skill-poor (and feat-poor, as well).

 

[Endur]

I don't understand why UMD is "charisma" based instead of intelligence based.

On the one hand, I understand that what the designers had in mind was that you would bluff the magic item into working for you. But I like the idea of the scientist that figures out the formula to make the item work.

 

[Deset Gled]

It is true that UMD is much less effective at low levels. It is mainly at higher levels where I see UMD being a problem. Also, some of the DCs are high, but activating a wand is only a 20.

A level 15 character could have 9 ranks. With a cha of 16 and a feat, bonuses are up to +14, and well into an area of trouble (only 25% failure of wands). If the character focused on charisma, it wouldn't be unlikely to have a Cha in the twenties by level 15, and consistantly be making UMD checks around 30

It's also interesting to note that there are spells that increase charisma, so a player with a relatively low charisma and no cha boosting items will be able to get better at subsequent UMD checks just by making one check.

 

[Li Shenron]

I would say that UMD as a cross-class skill is not too powerful, but if you take a single level of Rogue or Bard, you can max it up to level+3. Although it is better that skills are open to everyone, I however liked the flavor it had when UMD was exclusive to Rogues and Bards. Perhaps they could have considered a change similar to Animal Empathy.

 

[Darklone]

The only guy I saw with it was a paladin. Yeah, maxxed out Charisma. A +15 to these checks in low levels (around level 6, his one and only magic item was a cloak of charisma +6) is nice.

And the look on the DMs face as the paladin next to the charred corpse of our wizard picked up the wand of fireball and abused it horribly was worthless.

 

[Wippit Guud]

I don't see it as a problem, given how high the UMD skill check DCs are. A 9th level character would have, at most, 6 ranks, plus their CHA mod, which isn't going to get you very far. Best case (or worst, depending on your perspective) is a paladin or sorcerer, possibly with the feat that gives you +2 to UMD checks - but then both classes are skill-poor (and feat-poor, as well).

Both Spellcraft and Decipher Script offer synergy bonuses to UMD for scrolls only, which gives that sorcerer with an 18 Cha a check of +16 if they have the feat. Using a scroll is 20+level, so on a roll of 10, that harm spell goes off...

... it's not even a roll with a bard

 

[Shallown]

Okay UMD is a horribly abusable skill. I think making it cross class and not exclusive as before was a boo-boo. You don't even have to try hard to make it abusable.

Just cross class it buy an item that gives a +5 to skill in it and starting at mid levels you can use wands pretty much without worry. My players know about this but have learned that if they abuse the rules I abuse the rules. the did it with grappling everything under the sun so then did I. They now no it is a viable tactic at times but don't abuse it.

I have run characters in 3.0 who had it as a class skill and just kicked butt with it. Now you can buy those wands of fireball or lightning and the rogue had a back up boom stick with easy to make rolls. At 10th level I failed more or less on a 2 or less. It gets nasty quick if you let players abuse it.

So if they use the arguement that it is legal and a great tactic then its legal and a great tactic for the bad guys.

Later