D&D 4E The (on-line) Future of 4E (or 4D as it will become known)- am I mad?

[Goonalan]

My 1000th post concerns the advent of Dungeons & Dragons Dangerous Delves or 4D as it will become known (or something like that).

Am I alone in thinking that D&D is going to head on-line big time, we'll start with this-


Maptools, only the WOTC version.

With all the rules built in so that a million and one gamers from the four corners of the globe can participate, and anyone can be a DM.

And will eventually get around to this-


Vandal Hearts type stuff

En route we will pick up the following great things-

Various animations for all the myriad attacks and special moves of the PCs/monsters et al, and a little moving scenery- available in customisable packs- e.g. Mega Death Pack (now with added exploding fireball death animations- a special death for every state- Poison choking, Radiant searing et al).

4D Atmosphere- Ambient sounds and Voices, each PC/Monster will have to record a dozen or more battle cries et al which will be activated in conjunction with various attacks, special moves et al. Head sets will also be preset to 'Gruff Orc' or as appropriate etc.

The 4D Annual World Tournament- pay your subscription and then you and your friends can compete in the Ultimate Delve ™, winner takes a cut of the subs and becomes the 4D World Champion, league tables, and stat heaven available at 101 sources.

Various 4D Module packs, with terrain, lairs and 3D (4D with the ambient sounds et al) add on bits to build with.

The ability to record (and edit) all of your 'Delve' (as a VLC or similar file) which will lead to a myriad YouTube walkthrough's and the 'Classic KOTS Slash & Hack Attack!' Movie, complete with Metallica sound track. Runtime 4 hours 23 minutes, Directors cut 13 minutes (including Kalarel's soliloquay- alas poor Karavakos, I knew him Orcus, a Tiefling of infinite talent etc.)

4D Kwik-Play Simpleto(w)n anyone can be a DM starter pack with terrain, monsters, animations, voice-pack and a pre-built scenario.

4D Games/Campaign Packs with combinations of all of the above, ready to run...

Etc.

Am I the only one thinking this?

Obviously I'll still be playing around the table but I'll be as happy (perhaps) to fire up 4D and play with my on-line buds.

I'm excited- genuinely.

Two questions-

How mad am I?

How many years will it take to get to the above? (or else where will we be in 5, 10 years from now?)

Seriously.

And thanks ENWorld for allowing me to come and here and say these strange things, ten years ago I didn't know what a forum was, now I am one.

Cheers Goonalan

PS for vid and images of the Vandal Hearts type thing go here-

http://www.videojug.com/film/vandal-hearts-flames-of-judgment-hd-review-and-gameplay

http://uk.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/vandalhearts/images/0/9/?tag=imagenav;next

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about with bells and whistles and a whole world to explore (and all of the above).

 

[Dice4Hire]

I hope your grandchildren play D&D as that is how long it would take WOTC to do something like this.

WOTC wants to go online to increase revenue, and I d not blame them for it, they need to make money somehow. But in the manner you are suggesting, I sure hope not, and rather doubt it. There are computer games that already do all of that, and better. Why compete with them when your base game is different?

 

[delericho]

I really don't see it happening. The Virtual Tabletop is a great tool for those whose group can't get together, and is good for those who can't find a face-to-face game.

But I'm already struggling for time to prepare a D&D adventure. If I have to prepare a fancy graphical environment as well, then I have no chance. And if I find myself stuck with using pregenerated modules, then why would I not just play WoW instead?

WotC seem to be pretty certain that the future of the game is online. Personally, I can't help but see it as anything other than a gimmick.

(There's an argument that the future is online because the DDI may be raising more money than sales of books now. That's fair enough - but two years ago D&D Miniatures was outselling the RPG heavily... and where is it now?)

 

[moxcamel]

Ever play Neverwinter Nights? It wasn't quite as fancy as an MMO-style interface, but it did allow the "DM" to create scenarios that others could play through. It was most decidedly not tabletop gaming though, and was never seen as a direct threat to tabletop roleplaying.

I'd be surprised if "online" takes over the tabletop. It could be that the industry shrinks yet again as more players are pulled into online games, but if WotC were to pull it too hard in that direction I think tabletop gamers would just find another tabletop game or play older versions.

For what it's worth, I use a virtual tabletop (d20 Pro) in my tabletop game because it's so much easier to manage combat. But I don't think I'll ever have my players running through a virtualized computer-based world.

 

[Goonalan]

I hope your grandchildren play D&D as that is how long it would take WOTC to do something like this.

WOTC wants to go online to increase revenue, and I d not blame them for it, they need to make money somehow. But in the manner you are suggesting, I sure hope not, and rather doubt it. There are computer games that already do all of that, and better. Why compete with them when your base game is different?

Just spitballing you understand, but there aren't any computer games that replicate 4th edition D&D turn based are there (or any other edition as a strat RPG with a DM/GM builder role)- my (mad) idea would be that WOTC (or whoever) would look to cross over in to the RPG strategy market.

Remember the original VTT (the 3d one), certainly the thought was there to go down that route, don't you think?

Buy Monster tokens packs etc.

Just a thought.

 

[Goonalan]

I really don't see it happening. The Virtual Tabletop is a great tool for those whose group can't get together, and is good for those who can't find a face-to-face game.

But I'm already struggling for time to prepare a D&D adventure. If I have to prepare a fancy graphical environment as well, then I have no chance. And if I find myself stuck with using pregenerated modules, then why would I not just play WoW instead?

WotC seem to be pretty certain that the future of the game is online. Personally, I can't help but see it as anything other than a gimmick.

(There's an argument that the future is online because the DDI may be raising more money than sales of books now. That's fair enough - but two years ago D&D Miniatures was outselling the RPG heavily... and where is it now?)

Prep would be NWN style, drop in terrain, drop in bad guys- advertise dungeon in 'the Inn', recruit adventurers- go.

I agree with the money issue, I'm just projecting on.

Not a replacement for the face-to-face game, just a different/new way of playing the game.

Cheers Goonalan

 

[Goonalan]

Ever play Neverwinter Nights? It wasn't quite as fancy as an MMO-style interface, but it did allow the "DM" to create scenarios that others could play through. It was most decidedly not tabletop gaming though, and was never seen as a direct threat to tabletop roleplaying.

I'd be surprised if "online" takes over the tabletop. It could be that the industry shrinks yet again as more players are pulled into online games, but if WotC were to pull it too hard in that direction I think tabletop gamers would just find another tabletop game or play older versions.

For what it's worth, I use a virtual tabletop (d20 Pro) in my tabletop game because it's so much easier to manage combat. But I don't think I'll ever have my players running through a virtualized computer-based world.

Played NWN for years, built dungeons, ran campaigns.

At no point did I say it was a threat to tabletop, I play tabletop (30 years), on-line (approx. 5 years with maptools or similar) and PBP (on and off for 20 years).

I'm talking about a 3d version of maptools, with drop in terrain packs et al (as per NWN- and available for various Game Engines) and a massive dose of D&D rules.

For what it's worth I used to teach Narrative Design for Electronic Games, I'm actually writing new units for a Electronic Game Design degree course atm(warning I'm not the tech guy- I'm the story design guy). Anyway a bunch of students five years ago, for cash, built me a dungeon level- 3d top down (I don't fully understand the tech jargon- as I say my bit's the story design, sorry for all the caveats I don't want to get called out for not knowing my stuff). Anyway using Game Engine X they built me a dungeon level, around which I could move counters on a grid- and these were A level students.

I just think that 3d VTT is going to come around, and it's going to incorporate all the rules, and have terrain packs, and Goblin packs etc.

I'm probably just mad.

Thanks for replying.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Prep would be NWN style, drop in terrain, drop in bad guys- advertise dungeon in 'the Inn', recruit adventurers- go.

I agree with the money issue, I'm just projecting on.

Not a replacement for the face-to-face game, just a different/new way of playing the game.

Cheers Goonalan

I played around with the NWN 1 tools and found that I did not really have the patience to do a mod right but it felt really unstatisfying to just slap stuff down. The 2d VTTs don't have that problem as they do not attempt to create a polished 3d experience. I can see people playing online and I can see it being popular with folks that game but do not play rpg's because the old gang are scattered to the 4 winds.

As for online overtaking face to face, I do not really see it happening, not in the short term. A lot depends on the tools that are available on the client side.

What i could see, are more and more hybrid games as video conferencing tech gets better. People are doing it as it stands and I could see that expanding as the available bandwidth increases and the tech gets better and cheaper.

 

[Goonalan]

I played around with the NWN 1 tools and found that I did not really have the patience to do a mod right but it felt really unstatisfying to just slap stuff down. The 2d VTTs don't have that problem as they do not attempt to create a polished 3d experience. I can see people playing online and I can see it being popular with folks that game but do not play rpg's because the old gang are scattered to the 4 winds.

As for online overtaking face to face, I do not really see it happening, not in the short term. A lot depends on the tools that are available on the client side.

What i could see, are more and more hybrid games as video conferencing tech gets better. People are doing it as it stands and I could see that expanding as the available bandwidth increases and the tech gets better and cheaper.

Kay, I don't see face-to-face being replaced either.

I just have the feeling if D&D goes online then someone is going to do the cross-over with an RPG strat type game. I think 4e is set up for that- intentioned or not WOTC seemingly are opening up the possibility...

 

[DEFCON 1]

I played around with the NWN 1 tools and found that I did not really have the patience to do a mod right but it felt really unstatisfying to just slap stuff down.

This has always been a stumbling block for me as well. The better something could look... the less satisfied I am if what I'm going is not reaching even the median level of polish.

That's why I've always been reticent to use things like Dwarven Forge (even if I could afford them). For a small segment of my game, it would look fantastic. But for the other 90% that doesn't occur in those kind of specific styled dungeons... everything else would feel less impressive. In many ways, Dungeon Tiles and the WotC poster maps set up that same expectation, and even using the D&D miniatures can be less than satisfying when I have to run a monster for which I don't have a mini and thus have to use a proxy figure instead.

(And don't get me started on my fairly weak Warhammer 40K army... which I only play half-assed because I hate painting minis, but also hate playing other players who love it and have armies that are incredible. So disheartening to see great work that I don't have, that it makes me not even want to play the army I do.)