The Perform skill, WTF?

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

To quote from the SRD:

"Possible Perform types include ballad, buffoonery, chant, comedy, dance, drama, drums, epic, flute, harp, juggling, limericks, lute, mandolin, melody, mime, ode, pan pipes, recorder, shalm, storytelling, and trumpet. The character is capable of one form of performance per rank."

emphasis mine

Now I read this to mean that if a character puts 6 ranks into Perform, his Perform skill would read something like "Perform (drama, drums, melody, mime, ode, storytelling) 6 ranks," not something like "Perform (drums) 6 ranks." I take it to mean the former, and that's how I run it in my game. My players have read over the same thing in their PHBs and say "odd, but you seem to have it right, Steve m' lad."

So then, why is it that in the WotC splatbooks, and just about every similar third-party book I've seen, you'll see things like "Perform (dance) 6 ranks" in the prerequisites? Why not just "Perform (1 rank must be dance) 6 ranks"? Isn't that more accurate to what the rules state, instead of misleading the reader into believing that you must have 6 ranks in dance?

What's worse is that this seems to be a wide-spread misunderstanding among publishers. I've sent in NPCs for publication and been told that I needed to fix up my skill point cost because I'd listed something like "Profession (dance, drums, ode) 3 ranks," and they tell me that I've used too many skill points for the character's level and Int bonus - they are reading it as 3 ranks per 3 types of perform = 9 skill points rather than 3 ranks of perform with 3 types of perform = 3 skill points. I shrug my shoulders and do the changes they want, thinking all the while they are wrong but they are the ones paying me. But whenever this happens I still go back to the SRD and double (well, okay, this is about the 20th time now) to make sure I'm using the skill right. I still think I am.

Has anyone else come across this problem? How does everyone else use the skill? BTW, I have noted that how Perform has been handled and is written in the d20 Modern SRD makes it clear that each instance of Perform is a seperate skill, so this leaves me wondering if we'll maybe see something changed/clarified in the new PHB due this summer.

Opinions?

 

[Crothian]

I think the wizards sourcebooks have it right. I've always taken Perform Dance 6 ranks, to mean you must have 6 ranks in perform, and one of the assigned perform types must be dance.

I do agree that people tend to get it wrong, and d20 Modern isn't helping since they changed it. I imagine in the revise we may see it officially changed.

 

[Kaiyosama]

I agree with Crothian, though I can't comment on Modern. Personally, I'm not sure what to think about the divisions in preform. I would make sense for them to be seperate skills, but that would be too limiting for the skill points. On the other hand, I can see that training should be seperate in each (there is no correlation between reading poetry and playing the obo). But that would lead to too many divisions, and then where would we be (besides, who has room on their chacter sheet). Maybe Preform should just cover all types of prefomance within reason, but what about syrngie bonuses for arobatics for prefomances like tumble. Bah, I don't know what to think! I be quiet now.

OT: does anyone else think that the blade dancer in OA should need Preform (Dance)?

 

[Samothdm]

Well, I am definitely not a rules lawyer or guru or whatever, but I always ruled that each type of performance is a separate skill. To me, it's kind of like "Knowledge" or "Craft" - each type of knowledge, craft, or performance must be a specific type.

Otherwise, if you have a first level character who puts four ranks in "Perform" he knows four different ways to perform (let's say poetry, lyre, singing, and dance) and he knows each equally well (four ranks plus his cha. bonus). Then at second level, if he takes one more rank in "Perform" he would automatically know one extra type of performance (let's say it's the flute) and he'd know how to perform it just as well as the four types that he already knew how to perform even though he didn't even know how to play the flute at 1st level. That doesn't make sense.

Maybe I'm not explaning it well, but I think it's just cleaner if each type of performance is a separate skill. That way at 12th level you wouldn't have a character who knew how to perform 15 different types of performances, all at equally the same level of expertise.

 

[Hypersmurf]

"The character is capable of one form of performance per rank."

It's pretty clear.

-Hyp.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

"The character is capable of one form of performance per rank."

It's pretty clear.

-Hyp.

That's what I'd think, but they way it is implimented is different - they do the opposite of what the above says and treat it like Craft or Profession, hence the confusion.

 

[hammymchamham]

That's what I'd think, but they way it is implimented is different - they do the opposite of what the above says and treat it like Craft or Profession, hence the confusion.

Was just going to say that

/me throws in the "What Steve said hat"

 

[Hypersmurf]

That's what I'd think, but they way it is implimented is different - they do the opposite of what the above says and treat it like Craft or Profession, hence the confusion.

There's nothing wrong with saying:

Prerequisites: Perform (Dance) 6 ranks

You could have :

Prerequisites: Perform (Dance, Ballad) 6 ranks

... and there's still no problem.

You know they don't know what they're talking about when they say :

Prerequisites: Perform (Dance) 6 ranks, Perform (Ballad) 8 ranks

Your publishers who are treating them as separate skills need to read the Skill description again.

But Perform (Dance) 6 ranks is just a shorthand way of saying Perform 6 ranks, with Dance being one of the performance types the character knows.

-Hyp.

 

[hammymchamham]

What about prerequisites: Perform (Dance) 6 ranks, Perform (Ballad) 6 ranks ?

 

[Hypersmurf]

What about prerequisites: Perform (Dance) 6 ranks, Perform (Ballad) 6 ranks ?

You can't tell from that if they know what they're talking about or not It's not wrong. But that might just be fluke

-Hyp.