The Player's Problem with 3rd Party Products

[Rechan]

Is it me, or are 3rd party products really for the DM?

As a DM, I like third party products. But as a player, I feel that they're a waste. Not because they're not good, not because they're broken, but for one simple reason:

Wary DMs.

I've not really met someone who I could hand a 3rd party product, point to a Class or a Race or, well, anything, and say "Can I play that?" and get a go-ahead.

I've met many a DM who are wary of even books published by WotC, or those fellows who are leery of basically Anything outside of the PHB.

Which is a real shame, because many of the nice products out there are for players. Not even counting the glut of feats and PrCs, but alternate classes, or alternate casting systems. Take Green Ronin's Shaman's Handbook, or Witch's handbook. PC classes, with nice mechanics and such. But unless your DM owns the product and likes it, I doubt you'd get to play it.

Am I alone in this feeling?

 

[GreatLemur]

Which is a real shame, because many of the nice products out there are for players. Not even counting the glut of feats and PrCs, but alternate classes, or alternate casting systems. Take Green Ronin's Shaman's Handbook, or Witch's handbook. PC classes, with nice mechanics and such. But unless your DM owns the product and likes it, I doubt you'd get to play it.

Completely true. But doesn't the same generally go for WotC-published stuff? Of course, in those cases, there's a much better chance that the DM does own and trust the product, but the same rules are usually there. There's certainly WotC-published stuff I wouldn't allow, and third-party stuff that I would. It's all subject to review.

 

[Arnwyn]

I don't think you're alone at all.

But for our particular group, it's not just 3rd party products. Our strict rule is: If the DM doesn't own it, it's not in the game. "3rd party" has nothing to do with it.

 

[Crothian]

If you want to use certain books in a game as a player then find a DM who will allow them. You don't have to play with the same people all the time. The net offers many DMs and ways to play. Personally, as a DM I've opened the game up to include everything and have done so for years. But I've gamed with DMs that were not that way. Some DMs are like Arnwyn's and if the DM doesn't have the book it is not allowed. That DM got a few gifts from me.

The bottom line is there are all sorts gamers out there. Some are going to have a similar experience to you and some will not. If you search the forums I think we have this thread a few times a year, maybe more. It's an old feeling of some players and it's not going to go away.

 

[carmachu]

Not really. It various from publisher to publisher. Something from piazo or Monte is going to be ok...

 

[Psion]

Not unique to third party publishers. I don't allow Tome of Magic, Book of 9 Swords, or Magic of Incarnum.

I know plenty of other DMs who don't allow psionics.

 

[TerraDave]

Right. There is plenty of WotC stuff I wouldn't have allowed. But we are using some 3rd party stuff right now. Of course, its from material I pre-selected....

...which may make Rechans larger point.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I think that what you experience is somewhat true, but not always. I would say that what is more true in my experience is that DMs have preferred publishers. Once you can get a DM to look at a certain publisher (or line of products) you have more success within the publisher or line.

For example within WotC:

1. I allow most WotC 3.x "Complete Series" (But not Scoundrel or Complete Psionic)
2. I don't allow WotC Eberron, Forgotten Realms, etc.
3. I don't allow WotC "Races of..." series.

3rd Party:

1. I allow most Dreamscarred Press' works, except for their races books (since I don't use the races in the XPH).
2. I don't allow any Green Ronin works period.


It's just a hunch, but I would assume that DMs tend to be more this way, unless they are really well read in 3rd party stuff. WotC has so many products that DMs often like certain lines of products but maybe not all of them. With 3rd party sources, DMs are less likely to be familiar with the works and thus may be more or less inclined to allow (or disallow) the majority of stuff.

 

[cougent]

Not unique to third party publishers. I don't allow Tome of Magic, Book of 9 Swords, or Magic of Incarnum.

I know plenty of other DMs who don't allow psionics.

Ditto

My standing rule is that it is not allowed just because it exists.
If a player brings something to me and says he wants to play this or add that, I will review it and if it is not unbalanced then I will work with the player to incorporate it.
[Much web based stuff is very unbalanced]

It's a matter of brain overload for me as a DM, while 6 players can know every intricate detail of 6-12 different classes (and PrC's); I simply can't. Especially when you throw in NPC's and monsters on top of that. So I do it to keep it manageable, not to squelch players interests. If they are willing to take the time to bring me up to speed on the new whatsit, then I am willing to add it to the game. If they just want to buy the book and read it at the table, then not so much.

 

[Rechan]

Perhaps it's just that I know few Dms who shop around 3rd party stuff. The thing I've seen is the player usually has more books than the DM. But, anecdotal evidence.

I just assume a DM is more willing to look at WotC book and weigh it than a 3rd party, mind you.