Varianor Abroad
Explorer
Rechan said:
Hey, I allow the entirety of Arcana Evolved and stuff from all sorts of other supplements. Let's turn it around. Why are we DMs wary? What are you who play doing to put our fears at rest?
The Player's Problem with 3rd Party Products
- Thread starter Rechan
- Start date
Hey, I allow the entirety of Arcana Evolved and stuff from all sorts of other supplements. Let's turn it around. Why are we DMs wary? What are you who play doing to put our fears at rest?
Crothian
First Post
Varianor Abroad said:Let's turn it around. Why are we DMs wary? What are you who play doing to put our fears at rest?
I tell DMs if once we've used it if they don't like it then we stop using it and we have the group agree on it. So far I've stopped using things or I showcase something that is possibly abusive once and never use it again. The DM or group has never said something we've used was too powerful. Luckily we don't have people who want to abuse the system.
Doug McCrae
Legend
My group allows pretty much anything from a WotC book with the occasional nerfing if a DM thinks something is broken. I would definitely not allow Greenbond Summoner for instance.
Generally speaking third party books aren't allowed though occasional exceptions have been made.
This policy is mostly in place just because you have to draw the line somewhere though there's also a feeling that non-WotC books are more wonky with respect to the rules. This is definitely true of the monster books I own, for example the Screaming Skull from ToH2 has a magic missile ability which allows a reflex save. This is just bad rules imo.
Generally speaking third party books aren't allowed though occasional exceptions have been made.
This policy is mostly in place just because you have to draw the line somewhere though there's also a feeling that non-WotC books are more wonky with respect to the rules. This is definitely true of the monster books I own, for example the Screaming Skull from ToH2 has a magic missile ability which allows a reflex save. This is just bad rules imo.
CanadienneBacon
Explorer
I have to wonder if WotC's requirement that 3rd-party publishers fork out $5,000 in order to be let in on the 4E ruleset this spring and to publish 4E-compatible material come this GenCon will--looking into the future, here--help your conundrum.
I mean, will the $5k keep out most of the crappy glut that 3e suffered, or won't it? Will most DMs who outright ban non-core/non-WotC/non-whatever material come back around in time and start allowing players to use 3rd-party material for their PCs? Or is (as is the case for me, at least) the impression that most 3rd-party stuff is no good for chargen forever indelible?
I mean, will the $5k keep out most of the crappy glut that 3e suffered, or won't it? Will most DMs who outright ban non-core/non-WotC/non-whatever material come back around in time and start allowing players to use 3rd-party material for their PCs? Or is (as is the case for me, at least) the impression that most 3rd-party stuff is no good for chargen forever indelible?
Man in the Funny Hat
Hero
It's a good question and was wondering that myself. I don't really know what the margins are for the bigger 3rd party publishers. I guess I'm thinking that the 5k is certainly non-trivial, but in the long run is also not at all a dangerous investment. We can only hope that in the time they have the rules they will FIRST start running playtests of their own to shake out the system and come up with NEW ideas for what they can provide at the outset rather than just assume that only the names have changed and just repackage some old stuff. Give themselves a fighting chance at understanding the new paradigms and choosing new directions before they simply pick up where they left off with 3.5.CanadienneBacon said:
I think the REAL crap-glut will come with the second wave - but only if the first wave who pay the 5k set the wrong tone and pace of publications.
TheAuldGrump
First Post
Hmmm, I have proven just as likely to ban WotC materials as that of any third party publisher.
On the other hand, once I have vetted a source I allow an awful lot of third party material. I just don't allow stuff, from any publisher, sight unseen. I will go so far as to suggest some third party materials if it seems to fit a given character.
And the bans have more to do with whether something fits a given setting than anything else. (I had a player who wanted an Oozemaster in a setting analogous to Germany during the Thirty Years War, you know, the time of witch hunts? A samurai suggestion, from the same player, was likewise shot down....)
The Auld Grump
On the other hand, once I have vetted a source I allow an awful lot of third party material. I just don't allow stuff, from any publisher, sight unseen. I will go so far as to suggest some third party materials if it seems to fit a given character.
And the bans have more to do with whether something fits a given setting than anything else. (I had a player who wanted an Oozemaster in a setting analogous to Germany during the Thirty Years War, you know, the time of witch hunts? A samurai suggestion, from the same player, was likewise shot down....)
The Auld Grump
I don't really understand DMs with very stingy attitudes toward non-core material. What do they hope to accomplish? Is it balance? Because the core rules are far from paragons of balance. Do they find the myriad of options overwhelming despite the fact the onus appears mostly on the players to keep track of this stuff?
In my games I allow anything, with the obvious caveat that I will remedy anything troublesome. Players like the options and usually it informs their character background in cool and inspired ways. It also livens up combat for everyone, though I must compensate with a higher challenge rating because my players do optimize.
In my games I allow anything, with the obvious caveat that I will remedy anything troublesome. Players like the options and usually it informs their character background in cool and inspired ways. It also livens up combat for everyone, though I must compensate with a higher challenge rating because my players do optimize.
roguerouge
First Post
Nonlethal Force said:
Why? What's wrong with their stuff?
