The price of a temple (in Fallcrest)?

[Jack99]

Last time we played, one of my players said he wanted to buy the church in town and asked how much it would cost. Well, that kinda caught me off guard and I told him that I would get back to him. Now, there is no rush, since he just became 4th level and perhaps has a few hundred gold pieces to his name. But it's a character goal, and should thus be developed and nurtured.

A bit of background on the setting: It is a very PoL'ish setting. Within more than 800 miles, the biggest city is Laketown, which has around 3500-4000 inhabitants. The second biggest town is Fallcrest, housing around half of that. It is in Fallcrest that the church is. I do not remember if I changed anything, but this is what (little) info was handed to the players when they started.

16. Moonsong Temple: The third of Fallcrest's temples, dedicated to Sehanine, with shrines to Corellon, Melora and Avandra has been deserted for more than 15 years.

While certainly not a huge church, it does seem to have a decent size

[sblock=Fallcrest Map]

[/sblock]

Thinking more about things, my problems are not only related to the size of the church, but also to several other things.

- If the temple is deserted, who does the temple belong to? Does it belong to the Church of Sehanine? What about the other 3 gods who have a shrine in it, do they have a share in the church as well? Assuming that it does belong to the Church, that would mean there is some centralized HQ for each church, which doesn't sound very likely given the premise of the setting (very PoL'ish).

So maybe it still belongs to the church, but it is kinda only kept as a safekeep by the town, until a priest of the right faith stops by and has the time and money needed to get it up and running? Doesn't sound too likely to me either, but maybe someone can present a better argument for it.

So, if the doesn't belong to the Church, it must surely belong to the town, right?

Anyway, I would love to hear if anyone has any good ideas for what a temple like this should cost, and who should "own" it? That way, I can give my player something to work towards..

 

[MrMyth]

If the temple is deserted, who does the temple belong to?

Admittedly, being deserted doesn't necessarily mean it isn't in use. Even if all the caretakers or priests have moved on, I can see ordinary townsfolk regularly traveling to the shrines to pray or make offerings on their own. In this case, I wouldn't be surprised if the Temple fell under the domain of the mayor or lord of the town, and he might be the one the PCs need to bargain with for rights to the temple.

For price, I'd set it based on what level you think he'll be ready for the responsibility. If you feel it would be a good acquisition at Paragon, maybe set the price around a level 9 or 10 item - thus making it something he'll need to save for, and thus purchase it in place of a magic item. And while that might be a big investment initially, you might reward him for it down the road - maybe after four or five levels of tending well to the temple, he can be rewarded with a Divine Boon or something similar.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Last time we played, one of my players said he wanted to buy the church in town and asked how much it would cost. Well, that kinda caught me off guard and I told him that I would get back to him. Now, there is no rush, since he just became 4th level and perhaps has a few hundred gold pieces to his name. But it's a character goal, and should thus be developed and nurtured.

Absolutely! I love it when my players start taking an interest in their surroundings and the world therein.

- If the temple is deserted, who does the temple belong to? Does it belong to the Church of Sehanine? What about the other 3 gods who have a shrine in it, do they have a share in the church as well? Assuming that it does belong to the Church, that would mean there is some centralized HQ for each church, which doesn't sound very likely given the premise of the setting (very PoL'ish).

So maybe it still belongs to the church, but it is kinda only kept as a safekeep by the town, until a priest of the right faith stops by and has the time and money needed to get it up and running? Doesn't sound too likely to me either, but maybe someone can present a better argument for it.

So, if the doesn't belong to the Church, it must surely belong to the town, right?

Anyway, I would love to hear if anyone has any good ideas for what a temple like this should cost, and who should "own" it? That way, I can give my player something to work towards..

I would say it belongs to either the town of Fallcrest or the chruch in Laketown if there is a lot of trade going back and forth. Assuming Laketown is the older of the 2 cities it is quite likely that the church there built the church in Fallcrest so they would have to be petitioned to sell it. I would make it so that the church leaders of Sehanine assume they own it outright and have abandoned it as Fallcrest is too 'provincial' or backwater to be bothered with anymore. The twist is that the other 3 churches who have shrines in it also have an ownership stake in the abandoned church. This would set up a nice little conflict between all of them as they all claim the church but none of them are willing to actually occupy it. I love making 'good' churches corrupt in some way though so ymmv. It does give the PC a chance to interact with all of the churches involved and adventure hooks can be dropped liberally from there.

 

[Holy Bovine]

For price, I'd set it based on what level you think he'll be ready for the responsibility. If you feel it would be a good acquisition at Paragon, maybe set the price around a level 9 or 10 item - thus making it something he'll need to save for, and thus purchase it in place of a magic item.

Oh I forgot - this is how I would price it myself. Decide what level you'd like him to able to finally purchase the temple at and set the price as a magic item of that level. I like to keep things like this simple.

 

[S'mon]

I think you know that to answer this you need to decide who owns it, and why it is 'deserted'. It could simply be derelict and nominally the property of the local Lord, Markalhay (sp?). If the PC wants to take it over, Markalhay might very well simply say 'yes', or "Yes, in return for a pledge of allegiance" - possibly with a feudal contract of service specifying the PC's duties to provide Clerical services to his new liege-lord. Given the POL setting it seems unlikely to me that you simply plonk down cash for it.

 

[Stoat]

I'd say the church is the property of the local lord/ruling council. For the building to be owned by "the Church" you'd need some sort of organized, formal religious organization. Sehanine, Corellon, Melora and Avandra seem to chaotic to support that sort of thing.

The church is genuinely deserted. It's boarded up and no one worships there. Derelicts and thieves may use it as a crash pad or bolt hole, but it is not permanently occupied. The local lord wants it occupied, and is willing to pass it to the PC fairly cheaply (I'd price it as a 5th or 6th level item at most). Unfortunately, the church will require a fair amount of restoration before it can be used for services. I'd run this as an extended skill challenge/gold piece sink over the next two or three levels. I'd try to time things so the church opened about the time the PC hit 8th or 9th level.

Why is the church deserted? Because the last high priest fell under the influence of a Succubus and deserted his duties for a life of high living in Laketown. The succubus might return to try and tempt the new priest. Or the old priest may return seeking absolution.

 

[Badwe]

you seem to have some sort of deviation from the DMG, as the original write up of fallcrest implies moonsong is the most prosperous temple. No matter, of course it's your version of fallcrest and that's the important part, but i'll use the information provided in there as the best frame of reference.

-Even if your version is abandoned, the markhelays surely still favor it, so it may not be as simple as purchasing it, it might be more likely some sort of pledge or status of reknown is required.

-if money IS in order: the original priest described was a former adventurer, roughly level 6 (based on the rituals in his possession), who had access to numerous ritual scrolls. At a minimum, the PC should have a comperable level of wealth to that original NPC, though it's hard to say how much he would have to outright forfeit (for renovations) and how much of it he would retain despite needing it for a show of status.

-Beyond that, it seems to make the most sense that it would be a combination deal, both giving money as well as convincing worshippers of the appropriate gods of worthiness. It may even require a blessing of the appropriate gods.

 

[ExploderWizard]

The market is in kind of slump right now so he might be able to find a good deal on a forclosure temple from some fly-by-night startup deity that built one right before the bubble burst.

 

[Jack99]

First of all, thanks all for the ideas, it has definitely made things easier for me.

Admittedly, being deserted doesn't necessarily mean it isn't in use. Even if all the caretakers or priests have moved on, I can see ordinary townsfolk regularly traveling to the shrines to pray or make offerings on their own.

I hadn't thought about that. But to be fair, it has really been deserted. For years now, it has been locked up and used by a local thieves guild as partial base of operations.

I would say it belongs to either the town of Fallcrest or the chruch in Laketown if there is a lot of trade going back and forth. Assuming Laketown is the older of the 2 cities it is quite likely that the church there built the church in Fallcrest so they would have to be petitioned to sell it. I would make it so that the church leaders of Sehanine assume they own it outright and have abandoned it as Fallcrest is too 'provincial' or backwater to be bothered with anymore. The twist is that the other 3 churches who have shrines in it also have an ownership stake in the abandoned church. This would set up a nice little conflict between all of them as they all claim the church but none of them are willing to actually occupy it. I love making 'good' churches corrupt in some way though so ymmv. It does give the PC a chance to interact with all of the churches involved and adventure hooks can be dropped liberally from there.

That's an interesting idea, I might use that, or at least part thereof.

Oh I forgot - this is how I would price it myself. Decide what level you'd like him to able to finally purchase the temple at and set the price as a magic item of that level. I like to keep things like this simple.

Not bad. My only problem is that I use nowhere near the RAW when it comes to treasure and items, but it still gives me a good idea on how to price it.

I'd say the church is the property of the local lord/ruling council. For the building to be owned by "the Church" you'd need some sort of organized, formal religious organization. Sehanine, Corellon, Melora and Avandra seem to chaotic to support that sort of thing.

The church is genuinely deserted. It's boarded up and no one worships there. Derelicts and thieves may use it as a crash pad or bolt hole, but it is not permanently occupied. The local lord wants it occupied, and is willing to pass it to the PC fairly cheaply (I'd price it as a 5th or 6th level item at most). Unfortunately, the church will require a fair amount of restoration before it can be used for services. I'd run this as an extended skill challenge/gold piece sink over the next two or three levels. I'd try to time things so the church opened about the time the PC hit 8th or 9th level.

Why is the church deserted? Because the last high priest fell under the influence of a Succubus and deserted his duties for a life of high living in Laketown. The succubus might return to try and tempt the new priest. Or the old priest may return seeking absolution.

As mentioned above, your idea is not far from what actually happened. Biggest difference is that the Lord did not offer the players to the church. But he might eventually, for sure. About the high priest and a succubus, it's definitely possible, since the thieves guild the players destroyed was in fact lead by a succubus..

-Beyond that, it seems to make the most sense that it would be a combination deal, both giving money as well as convincing worshippers of the appropriate gods of worthiness. It may even require a blessing of the appropriate gods.

I really like that part, about needing the blessing of the gods.

Cheers

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I'd say the church is the property of the local lord/ruling council. For the building to be owned by "the Church" you'd need some sort of organized, formal religious organization. Sehanine, Corellon, Melora and Avandra seem to chaotic to support that sort of thing.

XP for Stoat

I have recently been looking at playing a more medevial society, with adjustments to the economy, politics, and law. Assuming Fallcrest is a fuedal area, the land.. and the church its built on, belongs to the local lord. I would not set a price on the church, but rather use it for a variety of skill challenges/adventure hooks.

First, convince the local lord to allow you to provde services there, probably in return for services rendered to the lord and his subject.
Second, restore the location and work to build a congregation
Third, restore the blessing of the dieties, through a festival.. which other faiths/forces may attempt to disrupt
fourth, complication arises with why it was deserted in the first place
Fifth, complication arises when the other clerics want thier peice of the pie
Sixth, complication arises when a political outlaw.. whom the local lord has reason to want dead.. arrives at the door seeking sanctuary
... or half a million other adventure hooks in the local area

I think this is a great opportunity to bring the adventures to the characters.

If I wasn't going to the full fuedal economy and take the more abstract route, I would determine the level the PC should attain it and cost it as a magic item of that level. This would assume that the GP sunk into it addresses steps 1,2, and 3 of the above. I would also develop some sort of boon, probably 3 to 5 levels higher, that the character(s) receive.. but can be lost if the temple is ever desecrated.