The problem with FLGS

[Emiricol]

Okay, so after months of no FLGS, ever since the Gauntlet in Modesto demonstrated the effects of its business policies by going out of business I finally found one in Turlock.

Now, this one is called Harlequin in Turlock. Smaller store, the standard baseline selection (small D&D shelf). However, the staff were knowledgeable, friendly, helpful and willing to go out of their way to make me want to shop there.

So, even with ALL THIS, why aren't I buying my 3.5 books from them? Because they are selling at cover price, which is about $30 total more than Amazon or presumably Wal-Mart.

They just can't compete on price, and I'm not willing to spend what amounts to a 33% premium to support my FLGS. I'll take a hit, but not that much of one.

Now, this REALLY REALLY bothers me, because the MSRP is printed on the cover. Why can't Amazon etc just undercut the cover price by enough to cover shipping, or maybe a little more? But not 33%!!! That just seems anti-competitive to me.

33% under. Sigh. I'm really mad at Amazon as I hit the Check Out button. Talk about conflicted...

 

[trancejeremy]

Well, why can't they compete on price?

Amazon presumably gets the books for the same amount as the FLGS does.

I know in the music business, huge chains actually get cds for less than smaller stores, so they actually can undercut prices. But I don't think that's how it works in the RPG business (though maybe for Walmart...)

So it's not like your FLGS would be selling the books for a loss. They just wouldn't be making as much money. Except maybe they would, as they might sell more at a slightly cheaper price.

( And of course, the real Emircol the Chaotic would steal them from his local store )

 

[Goobermunch]

I know the feeling. One option might be to talk with the manager/owner of the store and explain the situation. See if you can't make an agreement to buy the books for a more reasonable price, say 25% off. This way, you succeed in getting a good deal, and your FLGS gets some of the money.

--G

 

[Painfully]

I agree with you.

I've ALWAYS shopped locally and have had nothing but positive experiences with my FLGS. They have the best selection I've ever seen short of GenCon. But when I think about buying three hardcovers, maybe four, at full price, it certainly doesn't seem like a smart choice to ignore places like Amazon.com.

Nevertheless, I plan to wait about a month after it comes out, to see if I can get by with just the SRD updates, and the conversion guide from WotC.

I will add that I am reasonably done buying most hardcover books. There are fewer hardcovers that catch my interest, and only one that brings something completely new will be worth my money these days. It is one of the reasons I look forward to Monte Cook's, "Arcana Unearthed."

 

[Emiricol]

trancejeremy, I think Amazon and Wal-Mart actually do get discounts. Well, I know Wal-Mart does since that is usually a requirement for doing business with them, but I think Amazon does to.

I would steal them, but I'm getting less Chaotic(tm) in my old age. Plus after seeing that picture of me on the horse back in 1E, no one will pull my finger anymore, so I can't run as fast as I used to

Goobermunch, that's a good idea, it can't hurt to ask, right?

 

[Goobermunch]

No it can't. Just remember to promise the owner that you won't go out and tell everyone that he gave you a deal. The last the a store owner wants is an army of people claiming that they've got a right to a price that he or she negotiated with another customer (which is why salary information is usually kept private).

--G

 

[Cthulhu's Librarian]

Amazon presumably gets the books for the same amount as the FLGS does.

I know in the music business, huge chains actually get cds for less than smaller stores, so they actually can undercut prices. But I don't think that's how it works in the RPG business (though maybe for Walmart...)

Actually, having worked for a major publisher, I can tell you that Amazon, WalMart, and other major retailers DO get a bigger discount than the small chains and individual stores do. The publishers will tell you "Everybody gets treated the same" but they usually mean that everybody works off of the same discount schedule, in which the more you order, the bigger the discount. You FLGS (or even small chain) is never going to be able to order in the same quantity as Amazon, WalMart, or Barnes & Nobles. They will be ordering in the thousands for the entire chain, and the local store will be ordering in the 10-20 range. Plus, the FLGS will most likely be ordering from a distributer like Alliance Games, who buy in large quantities (but not as large as Amazon) and then take a cut whenthey sell to the FLGS, so the discount gets a bit smaller. When your avarage store gets a 42% discount on their order, to make up for the shipping and other overhead they can't afford to sell at a big discount like the major chains and online retailers can. Often times, the big chains will sell hot books at a loss (loss-leader titles) in the hopes that you will buy something else at full price at the same time, making up for the difference in the prices.

 

[Thaumaturge]

This works even better if you are purchasing a large number of books. Some friends of mine and I got together and told our LGS we would buy 17 books total if we had a discount. We went from nothing to 10%. Bargaining is still under way.

Thaumaturge.

 

[KDLadage]

I have on many occations paid more -- sometimes a lot more -- to patronize an establishment that I feel adds to the experience, aids me in the long run or otherwise provides services above and beyond the cover price of the merchendise. This applies to my books (RPG or otherwise), music -- even my resteraunt choice.

I can understand the reluctance to paying out of pocket, what you consider a 33% markup, for what you will undoubtedly convince yourself is the same product. It is my opinion, however, that you are not, in fact, getting the same product.

Sure, the same book, same cover, same pages and same content on those pages. To all scientific examination, you have recieved the same exact book you would have gotten from the brick-and-mortar store you have just given your kudos to. But what are the intangible costs involved? What are the intangible benefits to patronizing the store itself?

Consider this: back in 1984, Cedar Rapids had a great little game store over in the Indian Creek mall that I used to go to all the time for my RPG needs. His material was sold at the MSRP. People started going to book discounters to get their books. In those days, they justified this by the fact that if the discounters did not sell it, then they bought it from him... still, when he went out of business, not because of poor practices, or a lack of customer service -- but because of teh changing business climate, I lost more than a store to get my RPGs from. I lost a wonderful source of information and a man that told me of games from before my day. I lost the guy introduced me to Star Fleet Battles, Supremacy... hell, even Cosmic Encounter. So when his store went out of business, I lost a lot of games I might have gotten to know had he still been around to point me in the right direction.

Now, I am fully aware of the fact that many, many FLGSs are not this good. Some are downright aweful -- treating you like they are doing you a favor by acknowledging your existance. These stores I could care less if Walmart, or Amazon or what-have-you drives them out of business. In fact, we have lost three of those around here in recent memory.

But when a stor provides me with these intangibles... is it petty of me to feel that I should not have to pay the MSRP? Is it wrong to be angry with Amazon for discounting too low... then handing them my money? Yes. I do think this is the wrong way to look at this.

Please understand I am not trying to make a judgement on your choice. Perhaps the store does not provide enough of an intangible benefit to you to pass up a deep-discount of 33%. Perhaps you will get a deal from the store and all will be good. But I am just trying to point out that when I purchase something from a local business establishment, I am putting money into my local economy; I am supporting the future and welfare of my home-town. And these thigns mean something to me. Enough to pay more if I have to.

Since we have no FLGSs here these days... all having gone out of business. I waited a while and eventualy purchased from TALON -- sure, he has an online presence, but he also has a brick-and-mortal establishment, is a small business (something that is always a plus in my mind) and is a hell of a nice guy,

But in the end -- it is your money. My judgements not-withstanding, it is your choice to make. If the discount is aluring enough, buy without guilt. If the store provides you a benefit beyond the book, buy without looking back at what you might have saved -- for you also got other benefits. This is, after all, the whole of a capitalist economy. You vote with your dollars.

 

[Emiricol]

I've never had a problem paying MSRP. I have a problem paying 1/3 more than I have to. The value I perceive from abstractly supporting my FLGS just doesn't outweigh the value I perceive in saving enough money to buy a tangible extra book.

And yeah, it bothers me that I feel that way. But I just can't convince myself to spend the extra $30+.

If I hung out at the store, like I used to at The Game Store in Washington State (which I lived in for a few years), I'd probably drop the money at the FLGS. Immediate gratification has value, too! But that's not the case here (nor could it be due to minimal non-Warhammer selection).