The problem with FLGS

[Emiricol]

*Deleted another darn double post*

 

[coyote6]

Now, this REALLY REALLY bothers me, because the MSRP is printed on the cover. Why can't Amazon etc just undercut the cover price by enough to cover shipping, or maybe a little more?

Because then you wouldn't buy from them, you'd buy from your local store, where you could get it immediately and feel all warm and fuzzy about helping out a small local business?

Originally posted by trancejeremy
Well, why can't they compete on price?

Amazon presumably gets the books for the same amount as the FLGS does

As others said, probably not. Amazon probably gets at least the same discount as the FLGS's distributor does; the distributor adds more to the cost. Amazon may order more than the distributor, and thus get an even larger discount. And Amazon doesn't pay rent for retail space; sure, they've got big warehouses, but warehouse space is generally cheaper than retail space, and Amazon has a much bigger customer base & more sales to spread the overhead costs out over. Not to mention that Amazon survived for a few years without actually making a profit, something that your FLGS probably can't do.

BTW, oh Chaotic One -- you think that's hard to resist? I have an Amazon gift certificate, and an Amazon.com credit card -- more I spend there, more I get back. Argh!

 

[gunter uxbridge]

I was conflicted on this one too, but in the end Amazon won my money this time. For the most part, I shop at the local FLGS in Columbus and have spent a TON of cash there since 3.0 came out, but this time was a little different. While I think 3.5 is going to be great, I am having a hard time justifying paying full price for something I already have (or could get for free with the SRD). At least through Amazon I am virtually getting a buy-one-get-one free offer. Then the WOTC minis and other new stuff comes out I will go back to the local store, but Amazons offer was too good to pass up. My conscience is clear this time.

 

[LostWorldsMike]

Well, why can't they compete on price?

Amazon presumably gets the books for the same amount as the FLGS does.

I know in the music business, huge chains actually get cds for less than smaller stores, so they actually can undercut prices. But I don't think that's how it works in the RPG business (though maybe for Walmart...)

So it's not like your FLGS would be selling the books for a loss. They just wouldn't be making as much money. Except maybe they would, as they might sell more at a slightly cheaper price.

( And of course, the real Emircol the Chaotic would steal them from his local store )

Before I get into this, I should "warn" you: I'm a game (and comic book, and SF&F book) store co-owner.

As has already been pointed out, Amazon and the other major chains get a larger discount than your FLGS. Publishers (and distributors as well) base their discounts on how much you order from them - the more money you spend, the cheaper the individual items become.

Another reason Amazon and Barnes & Chernobyl and such can offer the discounts they do is the HUGE volume they sell. The fact that their profits are spread out over a huge selection of stuff - if they lose money on one thing, they'll make it up on something else - helps as well. And, by the very nature of being a chain, if one store doesn't make scads of money, they have a bunch more to pick up the slack

Plus, those guys have almost literal tons of cash to tide them over through short term loses.

Keep those things in mind: The FLGS doesn't get the same discount as the big guys, they don't sell as much "product" as the big guys, and they don't have the safety nets the big guys have.

Now, I never used to believe that discounting was a bad idea. Then I did a little math...

If a store orders 10 copies of a $30.00 book and they get a 50% discount (which is on the generous side, but it makes the mat easier), that means they've spent $150.00 with the potential of making $150.00 if they sell all of them.

Now let's say the store offers a 30% discount, that means the store would make $60.00 if they sold all the copies they ordered. Still a profit, but drastically less (which, in and of itself, WILL make a difference).

That profit on the discounted books hinges on selling all of them, though. If things go very badly for the store and they only sell half of the copies they order (for whatever reason), the profit disappears.

10 copies of a $30.00 book purchased at a 50% discount cost the store $150.00.

The store sells 5 copies to customers at a 30% discount, and the other 5 copies sit on the shelf.

The store has "made" $105.00.

In other words, the store has actually LOST $45.00.

To make any money in that scenario, the store HAS to sell at least 8 copies - and then they make a massive $18.00.

Okay, I'll go away now.

 

[frankthedm]

What bothers me is manufactures being unable to sell books directly to customers at full discount. Years ago distributers were needed, In this electronic era distributers are price inflating middlemen who's time has passed.

 

[LostWorldsMike]

What bothers me is manufactures being unable to sell books directly to customers at full discount. Years ago distributers were needed, In this electronic era distributers are price inflating middlemen who's time has passed.

I'm not a huge fan of distributors myself, but I can see the purpose they serve. Imagine, for a moment, that you're WotC...

You publish the revised D&D books and figure to sell 20,000 to 30,000 copies (to pull a number outta thin air). Now, would you rather ship those to 1 to 2 dozen distributors, or would you prefer sending them out to all 20,000 to 30,000 individuals?

I don't even wanna think about what kinda shipping/receiving department that would require.

Then there's the billing hassles involved. Would you rather have a few distributors whose payments you have to worry about, or d'you want to deal with thousands of individual payments coming in?

It might seem, on the surface, that publishers would be able to lower their prices by eliminating the "middle man", but when you consider all the things the company would have to handle as a self-distributor... I'd almost imagine that the books would end up with a higher cost to the consumer.

Now, I could be totally off-base. Wouldn't be the first time in my life.

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

Originally posted by Emiricol
I've never had a problem paying MSRP. I have a problem paying 1/3 more than I have to. The value I perceive from abstractly supporting my FLGS just doesn't outweigh the value I perceive in saving enough money to buy a tangible extra book.

Then it sounds like you have already made your decision and just want people from an internet message board to make you feel better about it.

You will always pay higher prices at smaller stores. These stores, in theory, can give you more "customer support" - free demos, gaming tables, more knowledgeable staff, they remember your name, likes and dislikes, etc. If that extra mile is absent or insufficient for you then buy from the big store. But don't whine if said LGS goes out of business because enough people made the same decision you do.

Which is more important - a dollar in your pocket or supporting a local small business?

- Ma'at

 

[BiggusGeekus]

The savings was too much for me too and I have a great FLGS. I'll pimp it here because I feel a little bad about it.

http://www.gameparlor.com/

But, man, $30! Plus a bit more for the whole share-the-love deal.

I'll make it up to them by buying AU there.

 

[Emiricol]

Of course I'd made up my mind. I'm glad it sounds like it, though; I thought the part about hitting the checkout button was clear enough.

Anyway, I don't really need "people from an internet message board to make me feel better about it". I've been pretty clear that I weighed the options and made a decision.

So if not to make me feel better, what was the purpose? Just complaining about Amazon, and lamenting the situation.

I'd hit the checkout button again, too, to save $30 on just three books. I saved enough to get Midnight basically for free.

Oh someone mentioned asking my FLGS for discount - they declined to do that (probably because I'm not a regular customer, or because they feel they can sell what they ordered at full price; both are legit reasons IMHO.)

Originally posted by Emiricol
I've never had a problem paying MSRP. I have a problem paying 1/3 more than I have to. The value I perceive from abstractly supporting my FLGS just doesn't outweigh the value I perceive in saving enough money to buy a tangible extra book.

Then it sounds like you have already made your decision and just want people from an internet message board to make you feel better about it.

You will always pay higher prices at smaller stores. These stores, in theory, can give you more "customer support" - free demos, gaming tables, more knowledgeable staff, they remember your name, likes and dislikes, etc. If that extra mile is absent or insufficient for you then buy from the big store. But don't whine if said LGS goes out of business because enough people made the same decision you do.

Which is more important - a dollar in your pocket or supporting a local small business?

- Ma'at

 

[ergeheilalt]

I suffer the distance problem. There used to be a nice gaming store in Mission Valley (Game Empire), but eventually they moved farther north. Gas prices being what they are here is southern California, it is actually cheaper to order on line and pay full price with shipping as opposed to going to the store and buying them in person. The fact that Amazon offers them for a discount on the MSRP is only a bonus.

I'd love to support them (they sell used gaming books pretty cheap too), however, they are just too far from where I am currently for the trip to make sense. Hopefully it will change a bit when I'm up in Pomona.

Erge