The problem with FLGS

[spacecrime.com]

And this is where it becomes obvious you still don't understand my point.

You know, I'm actually going to agree with you on that one. I am now intrigued, because what you're saying makes literally no sense to me.

You don't want the regular customers to take up the membership. The membership idea is explicitly suppossed to guard against just this phenomena.

Okay, let me try to parse this.

Are you saying that I should be charging occasional customers a "membership fee" for the privilege of purchasing in my store? That when 10-year-old Johnny comes in and says "I'd like a pack of Magic" my response should be, "Okay, that'll be a $50 membership fee, plus $1.97 for the pack"?

Because if that's what you're saying, I don't think Johnny's going to take that deal. He's only 7, but I think he's smarter than that.

Conversely, if I offer not-regular customers a deal that supposedly saves them money, and my regular or super customer wants the same deal, I'm supposed to say, "No, Joe, you've been a great customer for five years, but this guy I've never seen before is going to get a deal that you want and can't have"? Because once again, I gotta say that I don't think Joe's going to go for that.

Maybe you need to explain this to me again -- because if I'm understanding you correctly now, then your proposal is even worse than I thought.

Are you trying to claim that you are able to make everyone who enters your store pay up.

Of course not. Not all of the people in Northampton are my customers. (In fact, less than 1% of them are.) Not all of the gamers in the Pioneer Valley are my customers -- in fact, we probably get about 10% of the market. I don't make a sale to everyone who comes in the store, and I only get a fraction of my customers' dollars. None of this surprises or bothers me.

Here's the thing you keep not getting. I don't have to make "everyone" pay up. I don't have to "make" anyone do anything at all. As long as a small part of my potential market values other considerations over price, my family can make a comfortable living by providing that part of the market with what it wants.

When that changes...

What happens when more people become comfortable with internet purchases and pdfs?

...the market changes. As I said several posts ago, I think big changes are likely. There's a real chance the small local physical bookstore is going to be as obsolete as the local blacksmith. To be perfectly honest, I'm a lot more concerned about disintermediation through changing delivery systems than I am about price competition.

(Which is why I've spent the last three years developing an alternative career as a writer. And why my current project -- which I am, once again, procrastinating on -- is a PDF book. I watch trends too, compadre.)

Product pricing will certainly become an issue then. But wait, you can just sell them your stellar personality.

I'm terribly sorry. I keep forgetting that demolishing foolish theories with facts is rude.

I certainly won't dispute that more price competition will make my job that much more difficult. However, it will be even harder to compete if I'm out of business because I discounted myself to death two years earlier.

Here is a hint. You can actually try a combination of both good service and price cuts.

Finally moving away from deep discounting, are we? Good.

Here is another hint. The book and game industry is littered with the corporate corpses of retailers who thought that was true. In eight years I've watched three stores in my area go out of business thinking that, and I don't think they're going to be the last. With the exception of very small, very carefully targeted courtesy discounts, niche businesses with high Costs of Goods Sold always give up more than they gain from the discount.

A combination of modest price cuts and good service (which probably has little to no cost) might do you wonders.

Really? Show me some numbers. If you want to play with mine they're up-thread and I'll be happy to fill in gaps or answer questions about our current practices. Show me a scenario where a combination of "modest price cuts and good service" will make me more money than better service alone.

I'll even make it interesting. If you can come up with a plan and sell me on it, I'll put it into place and cut you in for 10% of any increased profits that can be attributed to the plan over the next year.

I'll tell you up front that I'm going to be a tough sell. You're going to need to show me the specifics of what the service improvements and discounts are, how they'll be publicized, how I'll pick up new customers from them, how I'll make more money from old customers, and how we can measure the plan's progress. I'll also want to see a serious increase in profit -- if it's less than ten grand, I'm not interested. But if you can do that, it'll certainly be worth it to me ... and I suspect $1000 or more and a consulting job on your resume might not be the worst thing in the world for you.

Ball's in your court, baby. Can you play?

cheers,

 

[Mark]

I'll even make it interesting. If you can come up with a plan and sell me on it, I'll put it into place and cut you in for 10% of any increased profits that can be attributed to the plan over the next year.

I'll tell you up front that I'm going to be a tough sell. You're going to need to show me the specifics of what the service improvements and discounts are, how they'll be publicized, how I'll pick up new customers from them, how I'll make more money from old customers, and how we can measure the plan's progress. I'll also want to see a serious increase in profit -- if it's less than ten grand, I'm not interested. But if you can do that, it'll certainly be worth it to me ... and I suspect $1000 or more and a consulting job on your resume might not be the worst thing in the world for you.

Interesting twist to this thread. I never saw this coming. Truly one of the best reads since Piratecat's storyhour. I can't wait for the next installment!

 

[spacecrime.com]

speaking of subscription/membership models...

This is an interesting way to do it.

(Netflix is undoubtedly old news to lots of folks here, but there's some fascinating stuff in this piece about how they've made operations more efficient and how much growth has been going on in recent months.)

Edit: Bah. Apparently it only likes to let you have the second page if you go to the first page through CNN. So you might want to do that instead. It's on the front page of the American edition, bottom right corner.

cheers,

 

[2d6]

Great reading!


I'll pitch in my .2cp

Smart people in retail understand that discounting isn't everything. The job of the salesperson is to add value to the product.

Amazon/buy.com/Wal-mart define the value of a product in the mind of our average customer. In this case 20 bucks per book for 3.5*, the only extra you get is free shipping if you spend over $25.

My LGS is selling them for $29.95 + tax per book. it's up to the LGS to justify the difference between thier price and the big 3's discounted price.

The price insenstive customer doesn't factor price into the buying descision, we like him and his business should be easy to retain

the price motivated customer we can't sell too and hope to stay in business. our additional services don't trump the pricetag at the big 3, our resources are better used somewhere else.

the person in the middle is our battleground.

We need to convince him that access to our friendly, well groomed, knowledgable staff, our gameing tables and comfy chairs are worth the extra bucks - Most of the stores I've been in fail at this.

thier employees would rather clerk behind the counter then engage the customer. They would rather say hi and bye, then create a rapport with the customer and find out what he/she needs or wants. They would rather read the last copy of a new book in the store then sell it ( true story).

Many stores don't round out the sale for thier customers. They would let a customer leave with new reaper minis and not offer paints, poly, or new brushes (both of better quality the the stuff at wal-mart) They would not offer markers with a new battlemat, no bookcovers, no accessories. Not only does your customer need to find those things for himself elsewhere, that's leaving money on the table.

How many comic shops treat thier game selection as supplemental income; rpgs are not nearly as important as thier core business and it shows.


I don't buy the need for discounting at the FLGS, if the store knows it's customers and provides the desired services, that store will survive. Mom&Pop applience, consumer electronics, car audio, clothing and other stores do it everyday without deep discounting.

ok, I think that made sense, but I'm really tired now

2d6

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I almost never buy anything other than miniatures at my FLGS anymore, and it has little to do with price. I know they can't compete on price, and I don't expect them to.

The biggest advantage a brick-and-mortar gamestore (or bookstore) has over Internet retailers is that I can walk into a store and browse., read the back cover, look at the artwork, maybe read the first page and see if the prose is competent or amateurish.

But when I walk into my FLGS and everything is shrink-wrapped to within an inch of its life, I can't do that. Sure, I could probably pry the salesperson away from whatever he was doing and ask him to unwrap it, but if you want to peruse a dozen things, that just ends up annoying us both.

I don't mind paying retail when I've had a chance to look at the product and made a semi-rational decision to buy it. I think pretty much everyone that hangs out on these boards has bought something that looked better in the store than it really was. It happens, and other than maybe making us a little leary about a particular series/author/publisher, we just chalk it up to experience and move on.

But if I'm going to be buying a pig-in-a-poke, either becuse I'm buying over the Internet, or because I'm buying a sealed container whose contents are a mystery, then I'm certainly going to start shopping for the best price. I know that there are problems with stock getting damaged by grubby little mits, but when you've got 20 copies of the latest WotC book, leave one alone as a display copy, and shrink-wrap the rest if you must.

The only time I think I should see a sizeable discount at my FLGS is for really old stock. If you have a single copy of a book that hasn't sold in two years, drop the price and get it out the door. I would think that selling it at cost at a certain point is better than carrying it on the books as inventory forever.

 

[Rel]

Going back to an earlier thread in this conversation, I wanted to toss out a few thoughts about the much vaunted benefits of the brick and mortar game store vs. the cold void of internet purchasing.

Whenever this topic comes up, I always see people talking about how cool it is to have an actual place to go and buy stuff where the staff is friendly and the potential exists to rub elbows with fellow gamers and even play games on the premises. This is usually mentioned as "extra value" gained by going to such a store that justifies the higher prices folks would pay for gaming material there as opposed to buying them at Walmart or Amazon or someplace like that. Many people say that such "extras" are "worth a lot".

The trick is that any time I've asked people if they would be willing to pay for such services (mostly in terms of having a place to play), they answer, "NO." So I was especially intrigued to see spacecrime.com talking about how he had toyed with the idea but hadn't found a way to make it feasible yet.

I contend that "place to play" services appeal to a small enough market segment with few enough disposable dollars and enough other options that are free (if less convenient) that it will, in almost every case, not be a viable business. I think that gamers are happy to avail themselves of such a service if it is free and that they will expound at great length about how "valuable" it is that the FLGS offers it. But when it comes to parting with cash, they will find other alternatives.

I also think that most of the other benefits of the FLGS are rapidly being usurped by the internet. The "knowlegable staff" is very nice, but they can't know everything about every game and I think it is probably easier to find out what you want to know about a product by reading online reviews or posting a thread about it on a messageboard like this one. The "meeting fellow gamers" angle is also addressed by places like the Gamers Seeking Gamers forum here. While you might say, "But not every local gamer posts on ENWorld.", the fact is that not every local gamer visits the FLGS either. Spacecrime.com even says that he only captures about 10% of his local gamer market.

As far as the "place to play" thing goes, many stores don't even offer this or have very minimal space to do it in. And to a degree, even this is being gobbled up by the internet as many folks will "play by post" on messageboards like this one. With cameras and teleconferencing software, you can even play "face to face" online if you are willing to front some capital costs.

None of which is to say that I don't like my FLGS or that I think they should just die out like the dinosaurs. I actually like my local gaming store quite a bit and the guy who runs it is very nice. I buy from him frequently. Perhaps I spend a few more bucks here and there by buying from him rather than Amazon. But if I'm making a "major purchase" like all the 3.5 books then we're talking about more than just a few bucks. I could be saving the cost of an entire book by paying closer to $20 than $30 per core rulebook.

Anyhow, my main point is that our society is, more and more becoming the sort where people ask themselves, "Can I get this product or service cheaper (or for free) on the internet than at the brick and mortar store that I have to leave home to get to?" I will be watching with interest to see how the FLGS adapts to this change.

 

[dsfriii]

Re: Game Parlor

And on the topic of shrinkwrapping; we do shrinkwrap. We'll also open it up upon request, if you want to see what's inside before deciding whether or not to buy.

Tarek
Game Parlor - Woodbridge
http://www.gameparlor.com [/B]

I have to give Games Parlor credit they do open up the book when you request it for review and it makes sense for those stores like Games Parlor that have large play areas. It keeps people from borrowing and book.

It is a great store, but you guys stock way to much Mongoose and not enough of the other d20 comapnies...

At least at the Chantily store.

 

[MikeWilliams]

I usually purchase my books from either Game Chest or Lone Star Comics.

Game Chest is a slightly better store (more knowledgeable staff), but both of them only give about 1/6th of the store over to RPGs. Ever since the Chicago Games Day, I've been dreaming of getting a Games Plus down here in Dallas.

joe b.

Joe,

Both Game Chest and Lonestar have great special order policies if they don't have what you're looking for in stock. Another good store in the D/FW area is Generation X Comics and Games in the Euless/Bedford area. D/FW's a great place for game stores - the store owners are professional, and interested in the well being of the industry. Hence, the stores offer top notch service.

Actually, I can say that for alot of the stores in Texas. Austin and Waco also have great game stores - and if I knew Houston better I could probably laud compliments on its game stores as well.

 

[TiQuinn]

But when I walk into my FLGS and everything is shrink-wrapped to within an inch of its life, I can't do that. Sure, I could probably pry the salesperson away from whatever he was doing and ask him to unwrap it, but if you want to peruse a dozen things, that just ends up annoying us both.

This is the main differentiator between gaming stores for me. I won't buy something that is shrink-wrapped. If the store will remove the shrink wrap for me, that's cool, but I've been to some stores that are very unwilling to do this.

 

[jgbrowning]

Joe,

Both Game Chest and Lonestar have great special order policies if they don't have what you're looking for in stock. Another good store in the D/FW area is Generation X Comics and Games in the Euless/Bedford area. D/FW's a great place for game stores - the store owners are professional, and interested in the well being of the industry. Hence, the stores offer top notch service.

Actually, I can say that for alot of the stores in Texas. Austin and Waco also have great game stores - and if I knew Houston better I could probably laud compliments on its game stores as well.

Heya Mike, nice to see you again.

I know they'll order stuff at the drop of a hat, they're very focused on getting material for their customers. I don't mean to imply that they are not a good gaming store. They're simply a store that, in order to survive in the mall, have to carry product that I'm not interested in as a gamer.

They have a very good supply of table top board/war games, but I don't play those. They've got an excellent puzzle selection, but I don't do puzzles. (However, my wife does and she just bought a huge 10,000 piece pubble and a puzzle caddy from them). They also have a good selection of "fun" games, but again I don't play those.

The guy owning the store is smart. If it was only a RPG store it wouldn't last, i imagine, given its location.

The only thing i wish for, and what i really liked about games plus, was that i wandered around for a few hours, picking rpgs up and reading bits and pieces. It's something that games chest can't do, and with good reason.

joe b.