The problem with FLGS

[Zaruthustran]

The biggest advantage a brick-and-mortar gamestore (or bookstore) has over Internet retailers is that I can walk into a store and browse., read the back cover, look at the artwork, maybe read the first page and see if the prose is competent or amateurish.

...which is precisely why Amazon has developed the "Look Inside the Book" feature. Check it out:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0786918500/

(click the "Look inside the book" link)

-z, all about the customer

 

[Zaruthustran]

I'm not sure about that. I looked, and while Amazon does indeed carry an impressive amount of D20 games and supplements, some are full price (thus negating that special Amazon 30% discount) or just not listed. I looked at Amazon for a large list of books I wanted and it only carried half. The others were only on RPG book sites.

Did you search by ISBN number? What were the book titles?

-z

 

[TalonComics]

Before I get into this, I should "warn" you: I'm a game (and comic book, and SF&F book) store co-owner.

As has already been pointed out, Amazon and the other major chains get a larger discount than your FLGS. Publishers (and distributors as well) base their discounts on how much you order from them - the more money you spend, the cheaper the individual items become.

Another reason Amazon and Barnes & Chernobyl and such can offer the discounts they do is the HUGE volume they sell. The fact that their profits are spread out over a huge selection of stuff - if they lose money on one thing, they'll make it up on something else - helps as well. And, by the very nature of being a chain, if one store doesn't make scads of money, they have a bunch more to pick up the slack

Plus, those guys have almost literal tons of cash to tide them over through short term loses.

Keep those things in mind: The FLGS doesn't get the same discount as the big guys, they don't sell as much "product" as the big guys, and they don't have the safety nets the big guys have.

Now, I never used to believe that discounting was a bad idea. Then I did a little math...

If a store orders 10 copies of a $30.00 book and they get a 50% discount (which is on the generous side, but it makes the mat easier), that means they've spent $150.00 with the potential of making $150.00 if they sell all of them.

Now let's say the store offers a 30% discount, that means the store would make $60.00 if they sold all the copies they ordered. Still a profit, but drastically less (which, in and of itself, WILL make a difference).

That profit on the discounted books hinges on selling all of them, though. If things go very badly for the store and they only sell half of the copies they order (for whatever reason), the profit disappears.

10 copies of a $30.00 book purchased at a 50% discount cost the store $150.00.

The store sells 5 copies to customers at a 30% discount, and the other 5 copies sit on the shelf.

The store has "made" $105.00.

In other words, the store has actually LOST $45.00.

To make any money in that scenario, the store HAS to sell at least 8 copies - and then they make a massive $18.00.

Okay, I'll go away now.

Wow, I was beginning to thing other retailers didn't read EN World.

WotC has set a flat discount on all of their product if you purchase it through a distributor instead of them directly. Even if I qualify for a higher discount from my distributor, I'll still only get the flat amount, which is a good chunk less.

Personally, I think Hasbro/WotC should support the distributors instead of trying to compete with them because it's only going to bite them in the ass. Pokemon is a good example of that.

~D

 

[TalonComics]

Anyhow, my main point is that our society is, more and more becoming the sort where people ask themselves, "Can I get this product or service cheaper (or for free) on the internet than at the brick and mortar store that I have to leave home to get to?" I will be watching with interest to see how the FLGS adapts to this change.

FLGS have to adapt by having websites. If they don't, eventually they're going to lose out to those who have.

As for Amazon, my concern is what the long term effects are going to happen from them massively discounting now. Whether people want to believe it or not, massive discounting online is hurting FLGSs everywhere. However, a company that loses millions of dollars every quarter isn't going to be around very much longer or is going to seriously have to re-think their game plan.

I've accused many gamers of being apathetic (*not* pathetic) towards our hobby and that feeling still holds. Yeah, it's great to save money but not at the potential expense of the future of our hobby. Believe me, I totally understand about lack of funds for books and the desire to have them. That's the number one reason I even have a discount at my store because I saw fans and friends struggling to buy books for their games. I as a retailer just can't give the books away.

~D

 

[Zaruthustran]

As for Amazon, my concern is what the long term effects are going to happen from them massively discounting now.

What's happening now is: gamers are getting gaming product at lower prices. That's a Good Thing for gamers.

The "long term effect" has already arrived: those gamers that care about price will shop online. Those that don't care about price will or who want the FLGS "feel" will shop offline.

Physical FLGS stores have indeed lost sales of game books and will continue to lose sales on game books, but they've responded by focusing on product that is best sold offline: collectable games.

If I was a FLGS, I'd be less concerned with online stores selling physical product and more concerned with gaming's move to electronic product. If physical FLGS stores think they've got competition now, just wait until D&D 4th Edition is released in digital format*.

Whether people want to believe it or not, massive discounting online is hurting FLGSs everywhere. However, a company that loses millions of dollars every quarter isn't going to be around very much longer or is going to seriously have to re-think their game plan.
~D

I agree with everything said here. Of course, Amazon has been profitable and has seriously "re-thunk" the game plan--Amazon is more and more becoming an online retail technology company--a "platform" for online retail. Sales from Gap, Target, Old Navy, ToysRUs, Circuit City, J&R, and regular joes like me and you (selling Used stuff) accounts for a significant portion of revenue sold on Amazon.com.

-z

* I have no idea if D&D 4E will be digital or not, but it's plain that there's a demand for digital gaming products (over and above computer and video games).

 

[dsfriii]

So where are the game store owners that are complaining about lost revenue from PDF sales, buy game producers that are not supporting them???

 

[spacecrime.com]

I was hoping you'd wander in, Talon-san. I have a feeling you're going have a different take on a number of my rantier statements -- and that your thoughts on the subject are going to be well worth listening to...

Changing subject to something Rel said..

So I was especially intrigued to see spacecrime.com talking about how he had toyed with the idea but hadn't found a way to make it feasible yet.

I'm kind of leaning towards your "not enough folks want that kind of service" take myself. That's certainly the case given the standard approach to gaming space.

But one of the things I like about the direction of this thread is that sometime around Saturday it led me to look around my space and try to think, "Okay, what would make this much spiffier, something that would be <b>worth</b> the kind of monthly fee that a workout club gets?"

And oddly enough, the first thought I had was, "Damnit, I should frame the posters on the wall. It looks like a college dorm in here." Now that's just an incidental thing, but it highlights most of the problem -- there's very little in our gaming space that most people don't have in their living rooms or dorm rooms.

So that's the line of thought I'm idly toying with right now: "What would make a gaming space a better experience than you can get at home?" I've got some possibilities already: better furnishings, theme rooms, a library of games (possibly with lending privileges), beverages and/or GMs on tap... I have no idea yet what's practical and what's not, I'm just noodling around in my head...

cheers,

 

[spacecrime.com]

So where are the game store owners that are complaining about lost revenue from PDF sales, by game producers that are not supporting them???

Mostly complaining quietly behind closed doors. It's one of those things that it's just not good business to rant about in public.

That said, I'm in a smaller camp of retailers that thinks publishers should be doing <b>more</b> PDFs. Products have a life cycle, and I think one of the biggest problems the game industry has is that we let physical books clog up the system long after the demand for them has expired. I'd much rather sell books for a year or two, then sell out and move the capital to fresher product than try to maintain a complete section of dozens of mostly-dead books. If publishers keep fewer physical books in print and make PDFs available for completists, that benefits everyone.

cheers,

 

[Zaruthustran]

You know what, spacecrime? You're pretty smart.

-z, respectfully

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

You know what, spacecrime? You're pretty smart.

-z, respectfully

Yeah, and he gives good sourcebook too!!

I'm not sure about the "theme room" notion though - S&M bondage dungeon came immediately to mind, but maybe that's more of a reflection on me than him...

PS- The frequent buyer program really works! ( see my earlier post )