The Problem with Star Wars

[LilMissKittyn]

Eh, except I defined (and since it wasn't contested, I assume it was accepted) a "good, classic" movie as having a lot of taste. The rest of what you're calling "good movies" are movies you enjoy, and, while that's what movies were originally made for, movies you enjoy don't get to be movies that last for a long time. Chick flicks are testaments to that (actually, I hate chick flicks, but whatever...)
I'm looking for a GREAT movie here. I refuse to bow down to Lucas unless he makes GREAT movies.

So, Ankh-Morpork Guard, we're actually in agreement and just picking at the degree in which Lucas deserves respect. The man is a brilliant producer and conceptualist, I'll give you that. Heck, he's even a decent director.
Go back to my first point. One of us missed it, I honestly don't know who.
Does Lucas need another editor, one with some power? One who can get all those terribly stupid lines out and create a movie that really is a classic because of the movie and not the concept?
I'd say, yes, absolutely.
Ironically, the only line I "really" remember from watching the movies (besides those I knew beforehand, like "Luke, I am your father (another line which might have been improved, in my oh so humble opinion)" is one that Harrison Ford made on the spot. He's about to get frozen, remember the scene?
"I love you."
"I know."
Kindof sad that my most memorable line is something Lucas didn't actually write.

 

[LilMissKittyn]

Oh yeah, I forgot. Lol, I'll try to get a friend to stat him as a demigod for you (the friend, actually, that introduced me to both Star Wars AND D&D).
[sblock] I'm a young'un of gaming, approaching my one-year anniversary this May, and I don't get to play much but PbP, so I can't do that kind of stuff yet. [/sblock]
It could be interesting.

 

[fanboy2000]

Eh, except I defined (and since it wasn't contested, I assume it was accepted) a "good, classic" movie as having a lot of taste.

That's ok. I defined good as having drug and fart jokes. You didn't contest that, so I assume you'll accept it.

Kindof sad that my most memorable line is something Lucas didn't actually write.

Of course, you've only seen the movies once. There could be some great lines that you missed the first time around.

 

[Vigilance]

Your posts come down to two things, that it has to be good, since it made a lot of money, and that Lucas should be revered as a god of sci-fi. Look at the tone of your posts on the second one, I think you'll see what I mean.

Let's see here:

George Lucas' Films have been nominated for 15 Academy Awards that I know of.

This means that people who make films for a living appreciate the skill and art that go into his films.

George Lucas' films also make a lot of money.

This means that people enjoy going to see them again and again.

At what point in this equation do you stop seeing past your tastes and realize that the films have value to others.

Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean it was badly done. Millions of people DO like them.

Chuck

 

[Tanager]

Let's see here:

George Lucas' Films have been nominated for 15 Academy Awards that I know of.

Actually 16 and a special achievement award. You missed the two for american graffiti in '73 (nominated for best director and screenplay). The things you learn when you lived with a film studies student for 8 years.

 

[The Serge]

George Lucas' Films have been nominated for 15 Academy Awards that I know of.

Best picture? Best director? Best actor or actress? Aside from A New Hope and perhaps The Empire Strikes Back, I can't image any of them being nominated for, much less winning, these most coveted and impressive Oscars. Hell, I can't even consider too many nominations for Best Screenplay. And I'm referring to the Star Wars films, not his other forays.

The films tend to be appreciated for their technical skill. While Lucas should be commended for the impact he's had on the technical aspects of film making and the kind of conceptualization necessary to make those things come to life, he's hardly personally responsible for the results beyond his ability to afford such great things.

George Lucas' films also make a lot of money.

This means that people enjoy going to see them again and again.

At what point in this equation do you stop seeing past your tastes and realize that the films have value to others.

I enjoy the films. I think a lot of people here who have agreed with me on the matter of Lucas' incompetence like the films. Liking them does not and should not preclude the ability to recognize the flaws inherent in them and Lucas' limitations. I find it quite odd and bemusing that so many people believe that if one likes something that it's impossible to criticize it.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Best picture? Best director? Best actor or actress? Aside from A New Hope and perhaps The Empire Strikes Back, I can't image any of them being nominated for, much less winning, these most coveted and impressive Oscars. Hell, I can't even consider too many nominations for Best Screenplay. And I'm referring to the Star Wars films, not his other forays.

The films tend to be appreciated for their technical skill. While Lucas should be commended for the impact he's had on the technical aspects of film making and the kind of conceptualization necessary to make those things come to life, he's hardly personally responsible for the results beyond his ability to afford such great things.

And this is a whole different matter. Technical awards shouldn't be looked down on as less that the "Important" awards. Not pointing at you directly, because its a fairly common thing that just bothers me.

Art direction, costumes, set design, etc are just as important, if not more important to movies than the actors and the directors and the writers. But like I said, completely different matter.

Oh, and how is Lucas not responsible for pushing people to do new things? Look at all that he created for A New Hope to be made. That wasn't just funding from Lucas. He's definitely personally responsible for ILM, THX, Skywalker Sound, etc.

 

[Orius]

Best picture? Best director? Best actor or actress? Aside from A New Hope and perhaps The Empire Strikes Back, I can't image any of them being nominated for, much less winning, these most coveted and impressive Oscars. Hell, I can't even consider too many nominations for Best Screenplay. And I'm referring to the Star Wars films, not his other forays.

So what? Most of the time these Oscars are given out people who are Academy favorites, not necessarily to people who were the best. The Oscars to me is little more than Hollywood patting itself on the back. They mean nothing. Hell, the Oscars were only a few weeks ago, and I couldn't even tell you who took those awards except for Clint Eastwood. That's how much I care, and I'm sure I'm hardly alone.

 

[Vigilance]

I enjoy the films. I think a lot of people here who have agreed with me on the matter of Lucas' incompetence like the films. Liking them does not and should not preclude the ability to recognize the flaws inherent in them and Lucas' limitations. I find it quite odd and bemusing that so many people believe that if one likes something that it's impossible to criticize it.

See I have no problem criticizing the films. Many of the comments I've made haven't been directed at you, even though you were original poster.

Saying you wish they were done differently is cool, I just have a hard time with characterizing George Lucas as incompetent.

When he made American Grafitti he filmed it documentary style with a handheld camera, and did several set pieces using rock music instead of an orchestral score.

This was radical at the time, however, how many movies and TV shows are filmed this way now? It got him nominated for best director.

As for Star Wars, its one of the most popular and enduring sci-fi franchises ever.

I just don't think incompetent film makers or bad story tellers create things that lasting.

Chuck

 

[barsoomcore]

Every time someone says "bad movies can still make lots of money" what they mean is "movies I don't like still make money."

Do you distinguish between "bad movies" and "movies I don't like"?

Because I don't like bad movies. I like good movies. I think most people are like this. The set of movies I think are good is exactly equal to the set of movies I like.

So I don't really see the point of what you're saying. I agree with it, but isn't it pretty much a straight-up tautology? Or were you trying to get something particular across that I missed?

LMK: The sooner you admit what a huge softie you are, the easier it gets. Trust me on this one.