The Proper Use of Nudity in FRPG Art

[S'mon]

This debate no longer constrainted to graphical art. A thread was closed recently and people given warning for lamenting...

I think it's best to avoid broadening the discussion, otherwise this thread will inevitably be locked too.

 

[Lanefan]

I think we can certainly make some allowances for "cool factor" without overly fretting about realism.

Agreed, but at some point it gets just a bit out of hand. My cutoff came when 3e art started portraying weapons as bigger than their wielders...

 

[Dioltach]

Agreed, but at some point it gets just a bit out of hand. My cutoff came when 3e art started portraying weapons as bigger than their wielders...

But how else do you represent a 1d8 hp character wielding a 1d12 great axe?

 

[Reynard]

Agreed, but at some point it gets just a bit out of hand. My cutoff came when 3e art started portraying weapons as bigger than their wielders...

 

[Hussar]

We just can't go to the place where any nudity (yes, I am specifically including exploitative cheesecake now!) is interpreted as attacking female gamers, we just can't. It opens the door to a very bad place, where we give the power to everybody to call for censure based on the argument "this offends me". I desperately hope everybody reading this understands why this means the death of creativity.

Is this all hypothetical? Or do you have specific examples in mind? Because, to be honest, I'm not seeing this. I'm not seeing the "death of creativity" when we're talking about choosing to not include exploitative art in game books.

 

[Voadam]

Agreed, but at some point it gets just a bit out of hand. My cutoff came when 3e art started portraying weapons as bigger than their wielders...

Tastes vary.

I enjoy a lot of Warhammer art.

 

[Hussar]

I can come up with several examples (re: PS in my previous post just above), but will discuss them within spoilers, not because they might spoil works (they might) but because it is a sidetrack for this thread:
/snip

(only two four examples for now. I might add a few more if and when I think of them. Hopefully this is enough for you to see my point. Note: I am deliberately aiming to include at least as many works by female and/or PoC creators than rich white pasty dudes, just because)
[/SPOILER]
I could add many more examples (and please do, possibly in a new thread?) but the point stands: these are works of art that can be construed as offensive to somebody. Definitely. Without question. That is still not a good reason to censor or block them. It is a good reason to avoid them, though.

Of course, I'm not arguing for frontal nudity in products like D&D aimed partially at an underage audience, but I don't need to say that. Roleplayers don't limit their dissections of gaming material to only PG supplements after all.

LOL, this is what happens when you reply before continuing to read.

Ok, 4 examples. NONE of them from RPG gaming. And none of them resulting in any sort of censorship whatsoever. So, what's your point? Altered Carbon went on for two more seasons plus an animated one. Wolf of Wall Street was a huge success. Where was anything censored?

 

[Hussar]

A further thought.

To me, the fundamental question is; Is it better for the hobby to have more people playing?

Again, totally just speaking for myself, the answer is an unqualified yes. It makes the hobby more socially acceptable, it ensures that we still have a hobby in the future, it makes it easier to find players and DM's. It means that there's more money for creatives to bring out more goodies for me to enjoy. So, yeah, it is better for the hobby to have more people playing.

Which, alternatively, means that anything that results in less people playing is bad. Adding nudity to gaming art has not increased the number of gamers over the years - no one says, "Hey, yeah, I totally got into AD&D for that succubus picture." OTOH, removing cheesecake art from the game has coincided with huge growths in the hobby. Additionally, other companies, like Paizo, had moved down this road, pathfinding a route so to speak, even before WotC did it, so, there is a considerable precedence here.

So, in what way does the game or the hobby benefit from using this type of art?

Oh, and on a total side note - I too am a cis white dude creeping up very close to 50. Sigh. So, yeah, take from that what you will. And, I've got a stack of Heavy Metal magazines to prove that I'm hardly a prude when it comes to art. But, again, time and place. I love artists like Luis Royo. Fantastic stuff. Frazetta, Vajello, Julie Bell. All fantastic stuff. Love it to pieces. However, I don't think that they really have a place in D&D material. Or, at least, not without some set up first.

 

[Lanefan]

View attachment 148907

Were that image done in 3e-art style the blade of the sword would be about as wide as the man's shoulders...

 

[Voadam]

It's wrong for the fandom to argue against change knowing that not changing something is keeping someone from enjoying the hobby.

There are problems with that as a general proposition.

Paizo has and has had LGBT inclusive representation in their fantasy gaming for years and years.

As an element of the stories and art and such it makes some uncomfortable or they find such elements objectionable and they argue that this status quo should change to exclude such elements so they do not feel uncomfortable and can enjoy the fantasy gaming without the LGBT aspects and it has driven some away who wanted to be part of pathfinder.

The general Paizo fandom argue against changing it, even knowing that not changing it is keeping somebody from enjoying the hobby.