The Quest

[Gilladian]

I'm finding this thread quite interesting!

I don't completely agree with all of Jack's definition of a quest, but I don't absolutely disagree either. I simply feel that different cultures and individuals might have disagreements over how important "understanding humility" is, for example.

What I'd like to hear more about is HOW people create an quest that DOES give the players that emotional involvement, makes them willing to spend weeks or months of their time playing the quest out, in game, and CAN it actually cause them to change their characters' nature?

I've never seen it happen beyond brief moments in my thirty+ years of gaming.

 

[onedtwelve]

Getting PCs the change is a hard one to do. I've never really even tried to pull it off.

Getting them to care can be a bit easier. I usually like to take a little time to introduce the quest and give them time to become intimate (in a sense) with the object of the quest. Maybe have them protect it once before, if only from something small. Or have a few interactions with it. Then when it's gone and they must retrieve it, they'll know it a little better. If that isn't quite enough, I make it important by default. A magical sword in a world without magic is important, a magical sword in a world where every adventurer has a magical sword isn't quite so much. There's also the easy one--kids are always important, especially if they're likeable.

Then you can add the cherry on top and make sure the NPCs drill in how important the object of the quest is. Have conversations where they casually bring up how great it is or something. That way the PCs can see from all sides how much it means to the world.

Then, when they're going after it, have it always just out of their reach for that extra temptation. The thieves just left an hour ago, you might be able to catch up if you hurry, too bad you can't hurry because of wall, maybe next time. That will keep them going, but don't use it too often or it gets old and annoying.

To make a PC change his or her attitude can be a bit trickier. Maybe you could allow them to act on instinct and see that the results are bad, but when they act out of character the results are good, thus causing a change. It can be subtle or direct, I suppose. I've never tried it before, but it's traditional conditioning techniques. It can be especially good with the hardened Paladin type who's set in her ways and won't see things any other way. Make sure the situations apply to your story and to the end so that the changes will be a big part of defeating the BBEG; otherwise, they are a bit pointless.

 

[Jack7]

I don't completely agree with all of Jack's definition of a quest, but I don't absolutely disagree either. I simply feel that different cultures and individuals might have disagreements over how important "understanding humility" is, for example.

You don't hav'ta completely agree of course. I'm listing elements that I consider essential but some of these elements can be considered "situational" and dependent upon the exact nature of the Quest. Some Quests might have different expectations dependent upon the nature of the culture or setting they are involved with, and so certain elements I listed are altered in some way. Or may not appear at all.

Others I didn't list may appear. Like 1d12 brought up a good point about the Questors not being the only ones to resolve the Quest. I didn't mention it because I like unique situations but some Quests may be "cyclical." That is they may need to be solved every so often or once a century to maintain peace in the Kingdom, just as one example. So that kinda Quest would require different Questors at different times to resolve it, or may even require different solutions at different times.

(A good Quest I can think of in this regard would be players who have studied the long historical background of a Quest, decide to go resolve it at the proper time, prepare everything as needed, and then discover the Quest has changed on them. Surprise...)

These elements are also taken from elements necessary to solve real life quests, literary quests, gaming quests, etc. They're kinda all mixed together. There are some elements I consider absolutely fundamental, but others that are situational.

I also suspect, and have seen this myself, that different players in the same party (or different characters in the same Romance) may have entirely different views upon what the Quest really means, how important it is to them, or even what the real objective of the Quest might actually be.

What I'd like to hear more about is HOW people create an quest that DOES give the players that emotional involvement, makes them willing to spend weeks or months of their time playing the quest out, in game, and CAN it actually cause them to change their characters' nature?

I think a lot depends upon these 5 basic things: 1) Giving the player a particular and unique Fate (or Doom to use an old Nordic term) that only he can fulfill, and that makes him feel both entirely special (I hate to use that term as I believe no one is really special, but there it is for lack of a better one), and that makes him feel responsible. (He feels responsible for fulfilling the Quest.) The same can be true of parties in general although someone in the party always feels the "weight" of the Quest more powerfully than others, and are more determined about it. Of course that happens with everything in life. 2) Giving them unique items or devices that connect them to the history of their Quest. Arthur's Sword Caliburn, for example. 3) Connecting them to the places and events that are related to the history of the Quest or that are vital to the fulfillment of the Quest. 4) Giving the Quest a "real stake" in the World, and setting. (Without a good, well developed milieu and World I don't think you can have a good game or literary or any kind of Quest because you can't really put anything in real danger. The World won't suffer if the Quest fails. It won't prosper or improve if it succeeds.) So Quests aren't dungeon hopping ventures in "worldless game." They are things that need to happen in developed worlds. And, 5) Giving the Questor a "real stake" in changing both himself and the World for the better if he succeeds in the Quest, or suffering the consequences of failure if he fails in his Quest.

Not every Quest I've ever designed, or played has been great, but those that included the components above were Great in game and play terms. However you can't force a Quest on someone, they have to want to take it on. A forced Quest is not a Quest, Quests are internally motivated. When it comes to game matters a DM provides good opportunities for interesting personalized Quests that will self-motivate the player. You lay it out and then let it begin to develop over time. It's not scripted like a series of Dungeon Room Exploration encounters. Fewer things are pre-set and far more is open to wider exploration because Quests are about changing both the world and the character. And you can't script that kinda change (except with a character in a book or film) but you can allow it to evolve over time as the Quest unfolds.

Anyway I hope that helped and gave you some ideas to work with.


I don't wanna recreate a post I've already written but here is a post I made about a Sword and the Paladin who used it that was part of a much larger, on-going Quest that ran for years - decades in game time, almost the entire lifespan of the Paladin, but also for years in real play time.

It was one of the best Quests I ever created and add all of the five components I listed above. 1d12 also had some good points about this.

Wrothcholire and the Restoration of Pesh