The RANDOM dungeon.

[Celebrim]

Now the question really is, can a group of 4th levels handle this?

If the first level is a 4 dungeon, and the bottom level (the eighth) is about a level 8, and you made it according to the DMG tables, then you should be about ok.

If your first level is level 4, and the second is a level 5, and the third a level 6and so forth with the bottom three levels being a 10th level dungeon, my guess is that you don't have nearly enough monsters and treasure in the dungeon to level up from 4th to at minimum 10th level.

Or perhaps the 1st level is a 1st level dungeon and it goes down to an 8th level dungeon. In that case, if you stuck to the tables you might be mostly alright, but the upper half of the dungeon won't be particularly challenging to the group. A party of 6 4th level characters won't have much in the way of a challenge when the worst thing they face is an isolated band of 6 goblins, or something of that sort. You don't want to be 50 rooms into the delve before the PC's are into a real fight, as boredom could set in before that.

Count the treasure you have available on each level. Multiply each total by about 1.6. Figure out how much XP it takes for your party to get from level 4 to level 5 (usually, about 8,000 XP per PC). Now, if the total we got earlier isn't at least this number, the dungeon level isn't big enough and you'll need to either expand it or get more generous with the treasure. For example, if you expect the party to reach 5th level by the 3rd level of the dungeon and you have 6 PCs, you need at least 30,000 g.p worth of treasure on the upper two floors and probably a bit more than that. Keep in mind that magic items are treasure and yield XP on acquisition per the tables in the DMG.

My preference would be expand. I think you are a little on the small side depending on where you think you will finish at. I think you need to be 25% to 33% larger. You might even want to be a bit larger than that (270 rooms?), because its nice for PC's to not have to feel they have to explore the whole dungeon to accomplish their primary goals.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

it isn't a simple 'continue going down/up' dungeon, they start in the middle and have choices as to go down or go up, give the players enough rope to hang themselves but not enough to climb out THAT easily.

That and as a house rule we don't level up during the adventure (Unless its required [ravenloft, undermountain, those types]) so it will be mostly 4th level

we also fudge that rule about only going up 1 level at time....it's not perfect, if I could I would go up levels during, but by having different passages leading to different levels, its hard to put a level to it, its not a start here and here dungeon, and they don't need to explore all of it, there is a chance that they will skip most of it (via the pools) and wind up at the end.

But with my Palladium group (we play Rifts, Dead Reign, Heroes unlimited, beyond supernatural, Palladium fantasy) I am thinking of having them play test a concept game, AD&D feel with 3e combat mechanics and Palladium based turns, SDC type stuff, and skills....its a long shot, but I could get it working in a weekend.

 

[Celebrim]

it isn't a simple 'continue going down/up' dungeon, they start in the middle and have choices as to go down or go up, give the players enough rope to hang themselves but not enough to climb out THAT easily.

I'm not saying that the structure of the dungeon needs to be as simple as going down a staircase means you are now deeper in the dungeon and hense it is now harder... although the random dungeon generator in the back of the DMG assumes that and will generate that if you use it.

However, you could certainly tweak the structure in various ways using different definitions of what a level was - distance from the entrance, page of the map, beyond some series of choke points, etc. Starting in the middle could lead to going up or down equal +1 level, and of course you could vary this by some factor: level +1/2 levels up or down, for instance.

What I guess I should be asking is what table or table(s) did you roll on to populate the module? Not everything on a given level with be of the same difficulty, but I would presume that a dungeon designed for a level 4 party would roll against the IV table to produce a range of monsters many of which would be drawn from the IV monster subtable (but some from weaker or stronger tables).

That and as a house rule we don't level up during the adventure (Unless its required [ravenloft, undermountain, those types]) so it will be mostly 4th level

So you populated the whole dungeon using the IV table?

...but by having different passages leading to different levels, its hard to put a level to it, its not a start here and here dungeon, and they don't need to explore all of it, there is a chance that they will skip most of it (via the pools) and wind up at the end.

I've used the table extensively so I know just how interconnected levels can be and I know of course that it won't generate a linear path through the dungeon. As a practical matter, it should be easy for you to know what the level is of any area of the dungeon - the dungeon level of any room is set by the table you rolled against when you determined the contents of the room and (IIRC, it's been 8-9 years since I looked at it) the multipliers you used when placing coions.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

I pretty much used the IV table, granted I used AD&D appendix for a 3.5 adventure, so I used the random dungeon encounters in the 3.5 DMG

but I want a good scale of creatures, granted there is an entire level with a tribe of orcs and goblins (a very angry group of combatants who lost all the non-combatants to monsters and the like, so they're the tougher left overs) but again most of the rooms are totally random, but not the "how does this happen?" monster combinations.

Rust monsters and carrion crawlers and stirges and ooze cubes and fungi and darkmantles and cockatrice and mimic and minotaurs and undead and traps and stuff! what else do you need?

oh...right treasure.
Most of the treasure within the actual dungeon is slightly weaker than what should be (knock the CR down a level) but in the end the dragon's hoard is large...afterall, he's been hiding in who knows where of a complex for his entire life (hundreds if not thousands of years)

so yeah....I feel kinda stupid for the random table making an adventure I would never be able to make on my own

 

[Celebrim]

I feel kinda stupid for the random table making an adventure I would never be able to make on my own

Don't. Creativity is 50% construction and 50% deconstruction. The random table helps you overcome your limits. That leaves you free to create where before you'd been trapped by your limited preconceptions. Pretty much everyone can benefit. It certainly helped me to think about the ways in which randomness was better than my plans and why.

The Slaad (see link in sig) would approve.

 

[Reynard]

Both GM Gems and The Dungeon Alphabet -- both from Goodman Games -- can make the DMG random dungeon generator go from "cool" to "AWESOME!!!!!" in less than 60 seconds.

EDIT: Also, here's a super awesome random dungeon generator: http://www.myth-weavers.com/generate_dungeon.php

 

[steeldragons]

Sounds awesome! I wanna play!

 

[Summer-Knight925]

Sounds awesome! I wanna play!

The dungeon adventure or the game I'm working on?

When I finish either (or both) I am willing to post something about it. (Quickstar rules, 'published' adventure [in poor format], ect. ect.)

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Please do post about it, inquiring minds want to know!

 

[steeldragons]

The dungeon adventure or the game I'm working on?

When I finish either (or both) I am willing to post something about it. (Quickstar rules, 'published' adventure [in poor format], ect. ect.)

Well, the randomly generated dungeon...and the game you're working it into...either...both...Yes please.

Be interested in hearing how it goes/what the players think/how the PCs fare...whatever you'd like to share.

--SD