D&D 4E The Realms being the first 4e setting

[Mouseferatu]

Is there a pointer to where they talk at all about this "implied setting"? I was assuming that this was the case, given that James Wyatt (I think) had the designation somewhere of "Story Team Lead" - but I haven't seen where they've said anything more about it beyond "Greyhawk is not the "default" setting in 4e". I'd like to know more about this "implied" setting and what they're doing with it.

I haven't seen anything written about it online, no. All I've got to go by is the seminar, where they talked about the "points of light in a dark world" theme.

 

[Scribble]

Ah, I see what you mean.

However, I can't agree. The whole point of published settings is to be different than the implied default. Otherwise, they wouldn't serve different segments of the market.

I agree that I'd like to see some changes in FR, but I don't think making it fit the design paradigm of the "core setting" is the way to go.

True, I agree I wouldn't want them to be exactly the same...

But it seems when they're redone in a new edition, they can't help but apply some of the attributes of the new system to the old concept... (Even if that just means basing a location around a new concept like feats or sorcerers...)

 

[timbannock]

As for Thor, I know 2e era TSR was afraid of using too many real-world gods (it did release Legends and Lore, but didn't want to call Deities and Demigods). Third edition obviously changed that.

When you think about this and the fact that WoTC brought all their settings back "in-house" by revoking licenses or, at the least, not renewing them, I'd wonder if this isn't the reasoning for redoing Planescape and the like.

Think about it: in 2e, part of Planescape (and to a lesser extent, Spelljammer) was the fact that you could use the Gods from multiple campaign settings, as well as real-world ones. Planescape is a different beast if you don't have FR gods and Greyhawk gods rubbing shoulders.

4E might see a new official Planescape...but on the flipside of that, all the work on making FR and Eberron's cosmology different from the Great Wheel means that they might have to "undo" some of the work from 3E.

I don't know, but I definitely would like to see Planescape again. Planewalker does a helluva job, but a nice hardcover with a fold-out map of Sigil (updated for your viewing pleasure!) would be kinda cool.

Doubt they'd get Tony back to do the artwork...he's kinda successful on his now.

 

[Jer]

I haven't seen anything written about it online, no. All I've got to go by is the seminar, where they talked about the "points of light in a dark world" theme.

Ah - thanks - that's about all I've seen too. I had a thought about it that I was going to post to the (now locked) Asmodeus "godhood" thread. If they're ascending Asmodeus to be a god in the new "core" books, and if Greyhawk is no longer the default setting, it follows that they're going to need to setup some other example gods for clerics in the core book. I'm wondering who they'll use to fill those niches.

This probably needs to be its own post, now that I think about it, since it's off topic here...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'm hoping they go the route of almost destroying the realms, and when it comes back, it's a much darker, less happy, creepy thing under the bed version of itself...

Why? The Realms aren't supposed to be a Dark or Horror setting. You're better off with Midnight and Ravenloft, respectively.

Why should they rewrite large parts of the setting? People (and lots of them, apparently) like the Realms because they are the Realms they are.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

I'm fine with Forgotten Realms as long as the average citizen of Waterdeep isn't an 22nd level bartender or 28th level sheep herder. And if they can cut the elven sub-races down to a few dozen, that'd be nice too.

Seriously, if they re-write it so that the PCs can be heroes that stand out instead of being just another (epic?) adventurer, I'll be happy.



Oh, and ease up on the drow please Mr. WOTC. We've had them shoved down our throats for years. I'm a bit bored with them.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'm fine with Forgotten Realms as long as the average citizen of Waterdeep isn't an 22nd level bartender or 28th level sheep herder.

That's not the Realms. Well, in Halruaa, lots of people have magic abilities, but most of those aren't powerful - they just have the spark. And in High Netheril, things were pretty wild, but even then, not eveyone was level 10+

And if they can cut the elven sub-races down to a few dozen, that'd be nice too.

I read that subclasses will only have different background information, not different stats. As long as there will be some ways to customise the subraces (provided the general elven race doesn't work with all of them), It should not be too bad.

The same will go for the couple of dozen dwarven subraces, and the other subraces.

The only thing I'd see being different would be drow (and similar deep races, like svirfneblin and duergar)

Seriously, if they re-write it so that the PCs can be heroes that stand out instead of being just another (epic?) adventurer, I'll be happy.

You can stand out even now. You just can't become the most powerful person on the whole planet over night. I always liked that about the Realms. Heroes-saving-the-whole-world is a nice story, but I don't think every story should be like that.

Oh, and ease up on the drow please Mr. WOTC. We've had them shoved down our throats for years. I'm a bit bored with them.

Then don't use them. You can be sure that they will be a playable race in the Realms right from the start - if not in the core rules. And as long as people buy supplements about drow, or containing lots of drow lore, Wizards will produce the books.

Wizards isn't shoving them down your throat, though. It seems that you greedily devour everything, including drow lore

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Wizards isn't shoving them down your throat, though.

There are more D&D books about drow than there are about dragons. You have to admit, even if you removed the "Year of the Frickin Drow", it's still pretty ridiculous.

But I'm not trying to derail the thread so...

 

[Scribble]

Why? The Realms aren't supposed to be a Dark or Horror setting. You're better off with Midnight and Ravenloft, respectively.

Why should they rewrite large parts of the setting? People (and lots of them, apparently) like the Realms because they are the Realms they are.

Doesn't have to go as far as a "horror" setting...

Shrug. It's my opinion on how I'd like to see the realms move...

 

[rounser]

Is there a pointer to where they talk at all about this "implied setting"? I was assuming that this was the case, given that James Wyatt (I think) had the designation somewhere of "Story Team Lead" - but I haven't seen where they've said anything more about it beyond "Greyhawk is not the "default" setting in 4e". I'd like to know more about this "implied" setting and what they're doing with it.

The implied setting and the default setting are two different things.

The "implied setting" is just what the D&D rules tell you about the kind of world D&D gets played in. We can assume that D&D's implied setting has elves, bards, swords and magic in it, because that's all in the PHB. The implied setting is not a setting as such, just a collection of tropes that D&D assumes are likely to exist in a D&D setting...thus the description "implied". You could change D&D's implied setting by getting rid of magic, for instance - that would change it fundamentally.

The "default setting" is the setting which the core rules assume you're in if you haven't stated any particular world. In 3E, this was Greyhawk, and used Greyhawk gods as a sort of "default pantheon". That's what this thread is discussing, not the implied setting (which you couldn't do away with even if you wanted to, because it'd take the D&D out of D&D). The default setting has the most proper nouns (e.g. names of people, places and gods).

Hope that helps clear things up a bit...