the Red Box Basic set covers 1st to 3rd level.

[S'mon]

That it goes to 3 levels rather than just 2 is great news, and will get me itching to buy a copy as an "intro to D&D" set I can eg take on vacation when visiting my in-laws - my brother-in-law likes the occasional D&D game.

JohnSnow:
"Just as an aside: 4th-level is a very easy jump from 3rd in 4e. You get 1 feat, +1 to 2 stats, and +1 to skill/ability checks/attacks and defenses. That's a pretty easy advancement for a DM to allow, or even for WotC to slip in (1 line in one table)."

That's a great point, and it would be nice if WoTC included that line in the set to allow people to transitionally level-up to 4th while the GM went hunting for the full rules. I agree that 5th level would need a bunch more pages and might be impractical, but they could include that line for 4th without adding in extra monsters and magic items; the GM can run a session or two with the level 1-3 stuff, just more of it.

At 3 sessions to level, that would give around 10-11 sessions or ca 40-50 hours of gaming in the box, without needing to start over at 1st, which compares well to most video games.

 

[Nebulous]

Why is my inner self dying to buy this thing, when I already have the rules?

That is what i'm saying: why do experienced 4e DMs NEED the Basic Set? Is it geared for us at all or just new players? I think part of the tug is nostalgia, of course.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Essentials will be a fine way for me to get updated rules... and the rules compendium will help for quick reference.

I like it. I would like the full updated rules even more, but... I believe it is a good thing to have a boxed set with everything you need to play.

 

[JohnSnow]

That's a great point, and it would be nice if WoTC included that line in the set to allow people to transitionally level-up to 4th while the GM went hunting for the full rules. I agree that 5th level would need a bunch more pages and might be impractical, but they could include that line for 4th without adding in extra monsters and magic items; the GM can run a session or two with the level 1-3 stuff, just more of it.

At 3 sessions to level, that would give around 10-11 sessions or ca 40-50 hours of gaming in the box, without needing to start over at 1st, which compares well to most video games.

Hmm. Good point. It also has the effect of giving the players a "teaser" of 4th-level that would have them clamoring (hopefully!) for continuation. Nobody wants to stop partway through a level. Alternatively, someone could view it as "winning" the game.

However, I have to quibble with your take on the "hours of gaming" the set provides. Unlike video games, D&D is completely replayable, in the sense that it is actually a different experience each time. With those rules, which include character generation, you can play any number of campaigns (dozens!) up to 4th-level. For the cost of the D&D Starter Set ($20 + tax), you have all the stuff you need to play low-level dungeon adventures for YEARS! Okay...you might want Dungeon Tiles Master Set 1: The Dungeon just to make your life easier.

Anyhow, that's WAY more than 40-50 hours. Just sayin'.

On another note, I think the nostalgia factor is part of why older gamers want this. In addition, I know that, as someone who's had to introduce newbies to 4e, a more newbie-friendly presentation of the game would be awesome. The sheer number of options can be positively overwhelming to people who've never played the game before. And when you have a game full of newbs, the DM just can't handhold all of them through the character creation process at the same time. So it takes WAY longer than it should.

4e is, in my opinion, a great game, but the hardcover rulebooks are pretty intimidating to new players. A new Red Box? Fantastic!

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

As an old-ish gamer, but not a 4e-er, this new Red Box is likely to be the thing that gets me to finally take the bait. It appeals to me because it contains a little of everything needed, without being a massive investment (in time or money) up front. It seems to be just enough to give me a fair taste of 4e for myself-- and all in a nifty retro package like my very first D&D set, to boot

I also like the Essentials stuff because it appears they'll divide the fantasy world up in a way more to my liking than the core 3 presented it.

We'll see... But at this point, I'm pretty happy with WotC's decision to provide this alternate route to 4e. Throw in DarkSun and GW, and this is shaping up to be a nice exploratory year for me!

 

[S'mon]

However, I have to quibble with your take on the "hours of gaming" the set provides. Unlike video games, D&D is completely replayable, in the sense that it is actually a different experience each time. With those rules, which include character generation, you can play any number of campaigns (dozens!) up to 4th-level. For the cost of the D&D Starter Set ($20 + tax), you have all the stuff you need to play low-level dungeon adventures for YEARS! Okay...you might want Dungeon Tiles Master Set 1: The Dungeon just to make your life easier.

Anyhow, that's WAY more than 40-50 hours. Just sayin'.

On another note, I think the nostalgia factor is part of why older gamers want this. In addition, I know that, as someone who's had to introduce newbies to 4e, a more newbie-friendly presentation of the game would be awesome. The sheer number of options can be positively overwhelming to people who've never played the game before. And when you have a game full of newbs, the DM just can't handhold all of them through the character creation process at the same time. So it takes WAY longer than it should.

4e is, in my opinion, a great game, but the hardcover rulebooks are pretty intimidating to new players. A new Red Box? Fantastic!

1. Re play value - I don't disagree; that's why I said without having to start over - you can of course run a long-term campaign world with just the Moldvay or Mentzer Basic set, in some ways it feels more 'traditional fantasy' than does the full game. That should also be possible with the new set, and I might well do that myself (create a campaign world that's balanced around everyone being level 1-3 or 1-4, it could work very well at the D&D Meetup I attend); but most people will want to upgrade after awhile.

2. I agree strongly about Newbie-friendliness. We get a lot of new players and would-be new DMs at the Meetup; the full version of 4e is pretty intimidating and I can think of several people, including some of our GMs, who I think would benefit a lot from a 4e Basic Set.

 

[Riley]

However, I think the bigger story is the fact that the Starter set goes to 3rd level. Sure, 4th or 5th woulda been nice, but 3rd is at least what the Mentzer Red Box went to.

I'm still a bit underwhelmed. For that little extra push, the starter set really should go to 11.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

We'll see... But at this point, I'm pretty happy with WotC's decision to provide this alternate route to 4e. Throw in DarkSun and GW, and this is shaping up to be a nice exploratory year for me!

It won't be alternate much longer. WOTC hasn't been shy about saying that the Essentials line of products will be replacing the PHB, MM, and DMG eventually.

 

[Peraion Graufalke]

WOTC hasn't been shy about saying that the Essentials line of products will be replacing the PHB, MM, and DMG eventually.

Can you provide a link, please? TIA.

 

[bagger245]

1. Re play value - I don't disagree; that's why I said without having to start over - you can of course run a long-term campaign world with just the Moldvay or Mentzer Basic set, in some ways it feels more 'traditional fantasy' than does the full game. That should also be possible with the new set, and I might well do that myself (create a campaign world that's balanced around everyone being level 1-3 or 1-4, it could work very well at the D&D Meetup I attend); but most people will want to upgrade after awhile.

Don't forget BD&D has tons of modules (the B-series) for levels 1-3.