The Return of Orcus

[Solarious]

Well, basicly what Orcus did was erase the Primus with the Last Word, and then basicly took over as Primus using his divine powers before a new Primus was promoted.

Of course, this was bad for the Mordens, as mentioned above. It was probably also a bad thing for Orcus too, all that orderly fashion stuff trying to impose itself on Orcus in the meantime. A plane of Law -does- want to keep things in line, naturally.

 

[Shemeska]

It's interesting to note that this intel is a retcon of how Orcus is presented in Dead Gods. That module regards Orcus as having been a deity prior to being slain and resurrected (hence the title "Dead Gods"), and that he's actually diminished as Tenebrous--he's literally a shadow of his former self.

Exactly, it's just trying to reconcile (for better or for worse) that 3e retroactively removed divinity from any archfiend that was also a deity on top of archfiend status.

Btw, anyone else find the notion that a demon lord--an emboditment of chaos if there ever was--could stand in for any length of time as Primus, an exemplar of order?

It seemed like a good idea at the time Tenebrous fled the Modron energy pool in terror once he realized that when he was imposing his will on the Modron heirarchy, that bits of Law were working their way back into him and actually beginning to influence his own thoughts. The Lawful corruption of his mind, or the dire threat of it, was what eventually forced him to abandon his place as a false Primus (and let a Secundus become elevated as the new Primus).

 

[Joshua Randall]

Thank you to all the planar scholars who have responded to my inquiry.

 

[thatdarncat]

And thank you for the yummy plot ideas...

 

[Psion]

I'm not certain it had anything to do with the early 2e attempts at self sanitization. The fiends weren't mentioned till MC:OP, and then after that point the archfiends wouldn't be named explicitely till later (though when they were, they didn't hold back in terms of material and detail). Without having my books in front of me, does anyone recall when his death was first mentioned? Was the event itself before or after Planescape?

At least with regards to within the Planescape material, I believe that the setup for his return was in the works from the first point of mention as a pre-planned metaplot.

The first real indication that things weren't as they were before was in Planes of Chaos, which mentioned that some unamed-demon lord was slain and Kiaransalee took his place.

This could have been build up to the metaplot, but it seemed a little early for that.

 

[Psion]

Exactly, it's just trying to reconcile (for better or for worse) that 3e retroactively removed divinity from any archfiend that was also a deity on top of archfiend status.

Which is STOOOPID if you ask me.

Then it seems they are anti-retconning this by giving demon lords domains.

 

[Shemeska]

Which is STOOOPID if you ask me.

Agreed. It was silly in my mind to have stripped them of that status in the first place, but that's hedging up against a burgeoning rant that I'll stay away from sharing here.

Then it seems they are anti-retconning this by giving demon lords domains.

Which was a move in the right direction to giving them parity with deities.

 

[Tharen the Damned]

Well,

WoCs Developers, Designers and every DM or PC out there can try to off Orcus or steal his divinity.
YOU WILL NEVER SUCCEED!
He will always rise again, the Demon Prince of our hearts!

All hail to Orcus!

edit: the Guys from Necromancer Games understand my love and dvotion for him

 

[Felon]

Well, regarding domains, remember that in D&D you technically need not worship anyone in particular to receive domains. Some just worhsip sadism and greed and give praise to the appropriate fiend.

You get your favored weapon from choosing a specific entity, but that's more a matter of personal training.

 

[Nightfall]

Tharen,

As always my fellow Orcus follower, you rock.