The Return of Subraces?

[hafrogman]

I think it's something you could handle with themes.

I'm not sure that's a good use for themes. Should your ranger not be an archer because you're a wood elf, or your fighter can't be a slayer or a defender just because you're a mountain dwarf instead of just a dwarf? Backgrounds maybe, but even then it assumes that the races culture is entirely monolithic. Mountain dwarves don't have priests or miners or soldiers because everyone of them has to assign their background to "Mountain Dwarf"?

(Also this avoids terrible, terrible things that WILL happen with subraces of humans, and the inevitable real world comparisons)

Pretty sure that D&D has managed to avoid that particular trap for the past 38 years, I'm sure they'll keep it up. In D&D, humanity's defining racial ability has always been adaptability and flexibility. That doesn't need to change based on cultures. I don't think you'll see human subcultures.

 

[Sunseeker]

I like subraces. It's a great way to provide a little variant flavor to a race and provide players with new options without filling up whole new books on it.

 

[howandwhy99]

You know they could mean Dopey, Sneezy, Bashful, Sleepy, Happy, Grumpy and Doc

 

[GreyICE]

I'm not sure that's a good use for themes. Should your ranger not be an archer because you're a wood elf, or your fighter can't be a slayer or a defender just because you're a mountain dwarf instead of just a dwarf? Backgrounds maybe, but even then it assumes that the races culture is entirely monolithic. Mountain dwarves don't have priests or miners or soldiers because everyone of them has to assign their background to "Mountain Dwarf"?Pretty sure that D&D has managed to avoid that particular trap for the past 38 years, I'm sure they'll keep it up.

The entire theme system is, from what they've explained, being deepened and expanded. It's not going to be a static 'one theme per character' but instead a way to differentiate characters from each other.

If that's the case and characters can have multiple themes, I see a lot of room for a 'culture' theme that gives various benefits based on the culture they're raised in. It also stops a lot of the nonsense that comes from having the subraces. If everyone in the subrace of "Shield Dwarves" is good with hammers and gets a bonus, then why does a shield dwarf born in the middle of a human settlement who was made an orphan and adopted by a human couple get a hammer bonus?

With a cultural theme he could just swap his "Shield Dwarf" theme for a background-specific theme.

 

[Stormonu]

I think it's something you could handle with themes.

The 'subraces' are usually more like 'culture' anyway. What is different between Wood Elves and High Elves? Well when you strip away all the mumbo jumbo, they're the same species where one lives in forests and one doesn't.

If that's the case, you could see the same done for humans - and honestly I would like to see it. Oeridian, Flan, Suel and Baklunish to name just a couple...

 

[TarionzCousin]

In the manner of the late, great Frank Zappa.

Valley Elf, She's a Valley Elf
Oh so fine, for sure, for sure
She's a Valley Elf and there is no cure

--like, gag me with a cooshee paw, I'm so sure.

 

[CasvalRemDeikun]

I could see the core having the High Elf and Wood Elf (perhaps the Drow Elf), and campaign settings having their own subraces. I could see the following happen. Most of the differences would be in proficiencies and other cultural stuff. Going off the settings I know.

Forgotten Realms:
Sun Elf and Moon Elf (High Elf, perhaps with more options)
Wood Elf and Wild Elf (Wood Elf, maybe more options)
Drow Elf (maybe some variants)

Eberron:
Valenar Elf (Wood Elf)
Aerenel Elf (High Elf)
Xen'drik Elf (Drow Elf)

Dragonlance:
Silvanesti Elf (High Elf, variant)
Qualinesti Elf (High Elf, probably closest to the base)
Kagonesti Elf (Wood Elf)

 

[ren1999]

I'm very optimistic about this idea.

Four races to teach the basics of the game.

A host of sub-races, half-races (Half-Elf, Half-Gnome, Half-Orc, etc..), themed-races such as Wood Elf, High Elf..etc..

If monsters from Monster Vault have different roles and types, so should characters.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I think that the 'sub-races' should be backgrounds, and could be wood-elf, deep delver, or nationality.

I also would like to see them avoid the 'half-' races and instead have a theme, limited to humans, that provides 'mixed' blood. That way you don't have racial bloat and can have half-elf, half-orc, half-dwarf...etc. Linked with the cultural backgrounds, this adds up to a wide range of racial options without adding too much to the ruleset.

The other cool thing that this does, and that I have recently been reminded is missing in so many RPG sessions, is a solid feel of nationality mattering. I would like to have something to base my descriptions of city streets that show the flavor of the folk... with cosmopolitan scenes with traders from Ragesia mixing with Dassen noblemen and Ostalin caravan merchants... but with description of characters instead of labels. For instance, Ragesia tends to wear black and red colors, furs, and have dark, swarthy complexions...

I just have a hard time coming up with a coherent feel for a world. If the culteral backgrounds included that fluff... then its a win for me!

 

[Serendipity]

Subraces. Blech. For a while there it really looked as though they weren't going to go back to hard coding culture into race but I suppose that was merely wishful thinking. So many of the early espoused good ideas that got me interested in 5e seem to have gone to the wayside.
Ah well, in about six days we'll know.