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<blockquote data-quote="Glade Riven" data-source="post: 5793866" data-attributes="member: 86468">Step 1: there's a poison for that, at least in 3e.Step 2: I think Unearthed Arcana had something for that in 3e. I know Pathfinder has called shots in Ultimate Combat.&nbsp;Besides, sleep (drow) poison is much more effective. Then you could just slit their throats as the attacker was rendered helpless. And like someone else said - that's dirty fighting. I know there's a lot of 3.5 stuff for that scattered throughout suppliments, there are decent options in Pathfinder. 4e I'm just not as familiar with.&nbsp;4e had a bunch of powers that had &quot;x condition applied until your turn comes back around.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp;Really. I seem to remember all sorts of poisons, plus UMD opens up plenty of options. Pathfinder has CMB/CMD.&nbsp;&nbsp;Depends on a level discrepency, and luck of the rolls. Sneak attack with a non-lethal strike from a sap on a guard designed for you to be able to take down would work fine. Not the system's fault if a DM chooses mooks who are too tough for a rogue to handle it.&nbsp;&nbsp;I'm not that familiar with the full library of 4e stuff, but there's probably a power for that.&nbsp;&nbsp;No, I houserule because I find a more dyanmic scale of success/fail makes for more interesting game. 4e has skill challenges. 3e &amp; Pathfinder can have just a couple of skill checks (roll a sneak, roll a spot/perception). Some skills, as written, did have different checks to beat for information gathering (10/15/20, etc). Failure of a sneak roll should result in a roll by the baddies for spot/listen/perception. And if the player does something stupid, well, as DM I can't fix that. At best, there should be a note in the DMG on how to let each player shine, and not just for stealth.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Glade Riven, post: 5793866, member: 86468"] Step 1: there's a poison for that, at least in 3e. Step 2: I think Unearthed Arcana had something for that in 3e. I know Pathfinder has called shots in Ultimate Combat. Besides, sleep (drow) poison is much more effective. Then you could just slit their throats as the attacker was rendered helpless. And like someone else said - that's dirty fighting. I know there's a lot of 3.5 stuff for that scattered throughout suppliments, there are decent options in Pathfinder. 4e I'm just not as familiar with. 4e had a bunch of powers that had "[I]x[/I] condition applied until your turn comes back around." Really. I seem to remember all sorts of poisons, plus UMD opens up plenty of options. Pathfinder has CMB/CMD. Depends on a level discrepency, and luck of the rolls. Sneak attack with a non-lethal strike from a sap on a guard designed for you to be able to take down would work fine. Not the system's fault if a DM chooses mooks who are too tough for a rogue to handle it. I'm not that familiar with the full library of 4e stuff, but there's probably a power for that. No, I houserule because I find a more dyanmic scale of success/fail makes for more interesting game. 4e has skill challenges. 3e & Pathfinder can have just a couple of skill checks (roll a sneak, roll a spot/perception). Some skills, as written, did have different checks to beat for information gathering (10/15/20, etc). Failure of a sneak roll should result in a roll by the baddies for spot/listen/perception. And if the player does something stupid, well, as DM I can't fix [I]that[/I]. At best, there should be a note in the DMG on how to let each player shine, and not just for stealth. [/QUOTE]

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