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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5796154" data-attributes="member: 82106">You can always use Thievery, Dungeoneering, and/or Streetwise for spotting things in specific niche situations. In fact all 4e traps have a set of DCs for different skills already, so that was kind of taken care of WRT traps from the start.As for scouting and incremental success, really, a Complexity 1 SC takes maybe 5 minutes, tops, to run. That gives you 4 levels of success to play with, and allows the rogue to exercise several skills or use other types of tactics. Much more interesting that a single check and quite suitable when there's a bit more than nothing at stake.As other people have said, the 4e rogue has a pretty good variety of 'dirty tricks' ranging from level 1's Blinding Barrage and Dazing Strike up to the level 9 Knockout Blow which instantly KO's an enemy. Just using an AP and a couple encounter powers with surprise will give you 3 unanswered attacks in a row, generally more than enough to gank a standard if your character is built with any degree of damage dealing focus.The Assassin class in HoS also DOES have an insta-gank a minor enemy effect. I think the lowest level of the feature lets you kill an opponent outright if your attack reduces them to 10 or fewer HP, and it scales at higher levels. Coupled again with surprise and maybe an AP and/or use of a poison there's rarely going to be a garden variety enemy that will survive your surprise attack.Honestly I thought 4e handled rogues really well. The Ossassin was a pretty toothless class and the HoS (Essentialized) Assassin isn't really top notch either, but they aren't bad and can certainly operate in the gank from surprise mode (heck, shrouds are practically custom made for that, they're not good for much else).No doubt 5e can put some polish on the whole thing, but the 4e rogue is a pretty good model to start with. Maybe there's some 3e stuff that could be brought in (not sure what was in there really).</blockquote>

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